Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 14 2020 10:03pm

X-Nitro wrote:
Apr 14 2020 9:52pm
Yes we tool around in comfortable control,
The tallest bars I found are box 1 triple taper alloy,
https://www.danscomp.com/box-alloy-trip ... gJ34fD_BwE

Second place is the sunlite 5" rise https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-MTB-Hand ... th=1&psc=1

Haven't seen the 31.5 ape-hangers but I keep looking..

I've heard tell that some sur ron owners are so old they don't even care how they look :lol:
That Dans comp bar is tall, like BMX tall.

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Offroader   100 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 15 2020 12:54am

Rix wrote:
Apr 14 2020 10:01pm
3DTOPO wrote:
Apr 13 2020 8:59pm
efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Apr 13 2020 10:16am
best surron tires?? :wink:
I was expecting the video to try out and compare different tires.

But no, the only tires other than the stock tires he has tried he declares the "best". Of course they are better than the stock tires, but declaring them the best seems dubious.

Pretty sure a knobby tire would have performed better on the trails shown.
This guy is running a SR241 trials on the rear (calls it a 244 but its not) and what looks like a 70/100-19 Maxis Maxicross SI up front. In the world of Enduro Racing and woods riding on full size MCs, a trials tire on the rear and knobby up front is very very popular for one reason, it works. Some of the fastest enduro racers out there are running this combo. I ran it for years on all of my KTMs. I can see why this guy likes it. But its not the best combo for conditions where the ground is muddy, or snow, high speed sandwashes, and it would suck for MX racing.
One thing to note is he is actually running a 19x2.75" shinko on the rear. I think I remember seeing this video when he made it and finding out it was actually a 2.75". What I want to point out about this is that that I tried both the 2.75" and 3.00" tires and I didn't like the 2.75" nearly as much as the 3.00".

The 19x2.75" tires are made for the front of the bike and have a much harder compound and I believe stiffer side walls, the knobs were also way shorter. It wasn't nearly as good in the rear as the 3.00", which was designed to be run in the rear and had much softer rubber.

He also mentions running 20PSI which is way too much. You really need to lower that PSI. I found a huge difference from 15 to 12PSI. I will probably run more like 8-10PSI as the 3.00" tires is really fat and will not pinch flat easily.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Apr 15 2020 2:46am

Is there any tires in 19" range for on road use?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by skyungjae » Apr 15 2020 10:50am

Allex wrote:
Apr 15 2020 2:46am
Is there any tires in 19" range for on road use?
I'm currently using Vee Rubber VRM-308 in 2.50x19 and Shinko 241 2.75x19 works well in the rear. I used to have the Shinkos up front at a 3.25 tire in the rear, but the bike just didn't feel good and the front rubbed the fork when I'd turn or hit bumps.

There are a handful of moped tires that are more street oriented, but this set up does okay while my supermoto set is down.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fullofdays » Apr 15 2020 10:53am

When is the new version dropping?

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 15 2020 12:40pm

Allex wrote:
Apr 15 2020 2:46am
Is there any tires in 19" range for on road use?
Avon Speedmaster 2.75-19 is an all road tire. https://www.bikebandit.com/tires-tubes/ ... ire/p/3324

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 15 2020 12:43pm

Offroader wrote:
Apr 15 2020 12:54am
Rix wrote:
Apr 14 2020 10:01pm
3DTOPO wrote:
Apr 13 2020 8:59pm
efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Apr 13 2020 10:16am
best surron tires?? :wink:
I was expecting the video to try out and compare different tires.

But no, the only tires other than the stock tires he has tried he declares the "best". Of course they are better than the stock tires, but declaring them the best seems dubious.

Pretty sure a knobby tire would have performed better on the trails shown.
This guy is running a SR241 trials on the rear (calls it a 244 but its not) and what looks like a 70/100-19 Maxis Maxicross SI up front. In the world of Enduro Racing and woods riding on full size MCs, a trials tire on the rear and knobby up front is very very popular for one reason, it works. Some of the fastest enduro racers out there are running this combo. I ran it for years on all of my KTMs. I can see why this guy likes it. But its not the best combo for conditions where the ground is muddy, or snow, high speed sandwashes, and it would suck for MX racing.
One thing to note is he is actually running a 19x2.75" shinko on the rear. I think I remember seeing this video when he made it and finding out it was actually a 2.75". What I want to point out about this is that that I tried both the 2.75" and 3.00" tires and I didn't like the 2.75" nearly as much as the 3.00".

The 19x2.75" tires are made for the front of the bike and have a much harder compound and I believe stiffer side walls, the knobs were also way shorter. It wasn't nearly as good in the rear as the 3.00", which was designed to be run in the rear and had much softer rubber.

He also mentions running 20PSI which is way too much. You really need to lower that PSI. I found a huge difference from 15 to 12PSI. I will probably run more like 8-10PSI as the 3.00" tires is really fat and will not pinch flat easily.
I knew it was a 2.57-19 SR241, as thats what I got on both ends of my bike. As far as low PSI, anything below 20PSI will require a rim lock or tubliss set up. With the tubliss set up, got to modify the bead lock unit to fit a 19x1.40 rim. One of the guys on the Stealth Thread did this with great results, but the Tubliss system is heavier than our tubes and I would not run that. If you are running the 3.00 around 10PSI, you must be running a rim lock?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by X-Nitro » Apr 15 2020 2:39pm

Rix wrote:
Apr 15 2020 12:40pm
Allex wrote:
Apr 15 2020 2:46am
Is there any tires in 19" range for on road use?
Avon Speedmaster 2.75-19 is an all road tire. https://www.bikebandit.com/tires-tubes/ ... ire/p/3324
oh yikes, had that tread on the front of my '75 cb400f...
:shock: 48v 1500w Custom 1/2 fatty bannaseat hardtail hub streetbike - The modern electric "stingray" mullet bike :bolt: E-Goat Sur-Ron

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 15 2020 3:08pm

X-Nitro wrote:
Apr 15 2020 2:39pm
Rix wrote:
Apr 15 2020 12:40pm
Allex wrote:
Apr 15 2020 2:46am
Is there any tires in 19" range for on road use?
Avon Speedmaster 2.75-19 is an all road tire. https://www.bikebandit.com/tires-tubes/ ... ire/p/3324
oh yikes, had that tread on the front of my '75 cb400f...
I wouldn't run it, but its a road tire which is what Allex was asking about. BTW, just got my stimulus check in, its going towards suspension. How heavy are you, and what is your shock spring weight on the DVO Coil? Whats the DNM Stock shock spring rate? My old green SurRon said 450# pounds on the coil, my new SuRon doesn't say anything.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Apr 15 2020 3:32pm

That Avon is awful looking. NOthing else? Vrubber feels like sr241

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 15 2020 3:55pm

Rix wrote:
Apr 15 2020 3:08pm
X-Nitro wrote:
Apr 15 2020 2:39pm
Rix wrote:
Apr 15 2020 12:40pm
Allex wrote:
Apr 15 2020 2:46am
Is there any tires in 19" range for on road use?
Avon Speedmaster 2.75-19 is an all road tire. https://www.bikebandit.com/tires-tubes/ ... ire/p/3324
oh yikes, had that tread on the front of my '75 cb400f...
I wouldn't run it, but its a road tire which is what Allex was asking about. BTW, just got my stimulus check in, its going towards suspension. How heavy are you, and what is your shock spring weight on the DVO Coil? Whats the DNM Stock shock spring rate? My old green SurRon said 450# pounds on the coil, my new SuRon doesn't say anything.
Speaking about suspension, I heard that there may be some issues with the Sur-Ron that I never heard about before. If you run too high a spring rate, the spring possibly gets too large in the outer diameter and it may hit the suspension linkage at the bottom. If you take a look at the bottom of your spring you will see it is extremely close to the linkage at the bottom and it may hit if the spring outer diameter gets too large. It may get too large if you increase the spring weight too much.

I still need to confirm this but that may limit how high in spring weight you can go.

The Fact Ace rear shock on my bike came with a 450 lbs spring. I believe this works for me because I don't weigh much, but you guys pushing over 200lbs may not be happy with a 450 lbs spring. I also remember people complaining a long time ago that the spring was too light for the sur-ron.

From what I heard you may not be able to fit a 650 lbs spring.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 15 2020 4:08pm

Allex wrote:
Apr 15 2020 3:32pm
That Avon is awful looking. NOthing else? Vrubber feels like sr241
Vee Rubber is similiar to the Shinko, but rubber compound feels a little harder. I have a Veerubber 2.75 sitting in my shop, its smaller width wise than the Shinko SR241 2.75. This is a weird wheel size for narrow road bike tires, I don't think there are very many options out there. I saw some "classic Italian" road tires in 2.75-19 for almost 100 bucks, they have a slightly better tread pattern than plain jane ribbed.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 15 2020 4:11pm

Offroader wrote:
Apr 15 2020 3:55pm
Rix wrote:
Apr 15 2020 3:08pm
X-Nitro wrote:
Apr 15 2020 2:39pm
Rix wrote:
Apr 15 2020 12:40pm


Avon Speedmaster 2.75-19 is an all road tire. https://www.bikebandit.com/tires-tubes/ ... ire/p/3324
oh yikes, had that tread on the front of my '75 cb400f...
I wouldn't run it, but its a road tire which is what Allex was asking about. BTW, just got my stimulus check in, its going towards suspension. How heavy are you, and what is your shock spring weight on the DVO Coil? Whats the DNM Stock shock spring rate? My old green SurRon said 450# pounds on the coil, my new SuRon doesn't say anything.
Speaking about suspension, I heard that there may be some issues with the Sur-Ron that I never heard about before. If you run too high a spring rate, the spring possibly gets too large in the outer diameter and it may hit the suspension linkage at the bottom. If you take a look at the bottom of your spring you will see it is extremely close to the linkage at the bottom and it may hit if the spring outer diameter gets too large. It may get too large if you increase the spring weight too much.

I still need to confirm this but that may limit how high in spring weight you can go.

The Fact Ace rear shock on my bike came with a 450 lbs spring. I believe this works for me because I don't weigh much, but you guys pushing over 200lbs may not be happy with a 450 lbs spring. I also remember people complaining a long time ago that the spring was too light for the sur-ron.

From what I heard you may not be able to fit a 650 lbs spring.
I could get by with a 500# or 550# pound spring. The 450 is just a little soft for my 235#. Probably 250# with gear and camelback.

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Merlin   10 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Merlin » Apr 15 2020 4:19pm

Switched 550 to 650 now.
550 is comfort without space for drops.
650 fits great so far. Stiff... Sporty... More racing and forgiving.

If spring is too long just take other brands which have same hub (travel)

Dhx2 is short shock. Because the orange sls shit is stock.
A normal fox 550 doesn't fit. *rolleyes*
But x-fusions 550 is 10mm shorter with same travel.

Full gear I have 100/102kg

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by X-Nitro » Apr 15 2020 4:43pm

I weigh about 140, maybe 65kg suited so the 450# is good for me. :thumb:
:shock: 48v 1500w Custom 1/2 fatty bannaseat hardtail hub streetbike - The modern electric "stingray" mullet bike :bolt: E-Goat Sur-Ron

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 15 2020 7:31pm

Merlin wrote:
Apr 15 2020 4:19pm
Switched 550 to 650 now.
550 is comfort without space for drops.
650 fits great so far. Stiff... Sporty... More racing and forgiving.

If spring is too long just take other brands which have same hub (travel)

Dhx2 is short shock. Because the orange sls shit is stock.
A normal fox 550 doesn't fit. *rolleyes*
But x-fusions 550 is 10mm shorter with same travel.

Full gear I have 100/102kg
What rear shock are you running? what fork are you running?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by macribs » Apr 16 2020 4:22am

@3DTOPO @Offroader

Kudos for the stamina and never cave mentality. This battle have been going on for pages upon pages. I tip my hat to both of you for the rock hard triathlon stamina. ;)

Just to ensure the battle doesn't stop I'll pitch my 2 cents on the topic ;)

I think there are several tire choices for most riders. Some riders will focus on most grip at all cause, no matter what the trials look like afterwards, other need extra traction only on rocky sections and can do with trail tires, others might consider durability, or even straight up price. I even tried "motorad" tire on 17" rims. That didn't work very well for me. I even bought tires just because I got a great deal and lived with the consequences. Tires wear out sooner or later. We don't waste money on gas, so putting some extra in tires it's ok.

That vid posted about hybrid tires made me wanna try a sticky hybrid, but still with a little bite to it. And tubeliss. That's is a must. Not to mention co2 cartridge and tubleless tire repair kit makes a flat tire a 1 minute fix.
Last edited by macribs on Apr 16 2020 6:28pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Apr 16 2020 6:59am

also consider that if, when ppl may want to up the surron power with aftermarket higher voltage battery and controller able to deliver higher phase amps.. then you may want, need a more meaty tire to maintain traction, etc with the added power and torque;) ..
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 16 2020 11:12am

Allex wrote:
Apr 15 2020 3:32pm
That Avon is awful looking. NOthing else? Vrubber feels like sr241
She Shinko SR244 2.75-19 is a little bit more road friendly than the SR241, but its definitely rated as a "dual purpose" tire.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 16 2020 12:41pm

efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Apr 16 2020 6:59am
also consider that if, when ppl may want to up the surron power with aftermarket higher voltage battery and controller able to deliver higher phase amps.. then you may want, need a more meaty tire to maintain traction, etc with the added power and torque;) ..
You mean up the power with one of these controllers.

One thing I always question is lots of people are putting tires built for the front of the bike on the rear. I am not sure if that is the best idea. I know from putting a front shinko 241 2.75"x19 and then going to a rear shinko 241 3.00x17" on the rear it was amazing how much better the 3.00" designed for the rear was. Just about everything was better, longer knobs, much softer compound, much softer knobs, probably softer sidewalls. I remember after putting on the 3.00" it was much easier to do some harder technical riding.

Most likely the issue we are having finding tires for the suron is the ones out there are very heavy and they were designed for bikes that could weigh 300-500 lbs with lots of power. I wouldn't mind putting on a larger 3.5" tire, but not at the expense of extra weight. 3.00" tires are too heavy.

The only saving grace here is if you get a flat on the rear you can easily ride the bike home at speeds of 30MPH with a complete flat. I'm not sure if you can do this so easily with a dirt bike.

Image

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Apr 16 2020 2:56pm

Rix wrote:
Apr 16 2020 11:12am
Allex wrote:
Apr 15 2020 3:32pm
That Avon is awful looking. NOthing else? Vrubber feels like sr241
She Shinko SR244 2.75-19 is a little bit more road friendly than the SR241, but its definitely rated as a "dual purpose" tire.
Yeah those look familiar as well, one of those two would do then, need to check which of them are lighter

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by X-Nitro » Apr 16 2020 3:19pm

I get a good balance with the 241 on the front & 244 rear.
The heavier, stiffer 244 helps to protect the rear & doesn't do too much trail damage.
Side by side the 2.75x19 244 has slightly larger "knobs" than the wider 3.00x18 that has slightly larger "rain groves". :roll:
:shock: 48v 1500w Custom 1/2 fatty bannaseat hardtail hub streetbike - The modern electric "stingray" mullet bike :bolt: E-Goat Sur-Ron

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 16 2020 6:57pm

Allex wrote:
Apr 16 2020 2:56pm
Rix wrote:
Apr 16 2020 11:12am
Allex wrote:
Apr 15 2020 3:32pm
That Avon is awful looking. NOthing else? Vrubber feels like sr241
She Shinko SR244 2.75-19 is a little bit more road friendly than the SR241, but its definitely rated as a "dual purpose" tire.
Yeah those look familiar as well, one of those two would do then, need to check which of them are lighter
The 244 weighs 7-9 ounces more than the 241 in the 2.75-19 size. I took these measurements on my bathroom scale, its not exact, but the 241 consistently weighed less.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 16 2020 11:30pm

I've always ran around 12 psi with the shinko 241 on the rear, sometimes dropping to 10 psi. I never had any issues running it that low.

I plan to try 10 psi with my tire.

The tire is always stuck to the side of the rim pretty strongly. I have to pry the tire away from the rim to break the seal when doing tire changes. Do you really think I will have issues running 10 psi with no rim lock?

Will the Sur-Ron being that it is mid-drive cause me issues where my 8KW hub motor bike did not?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Apr 16 2020 11:49pm

A lot of people ripped the valve stem off when the tire spun with the stock tires. Getting all the grease off the rim and tire bead will help a lot there. But every tire will behave a bit differently.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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