New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
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michih.   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by michih. » Dec 31 2019 3:54pm

Yes, you just have to unscrew the bearings.

http://www.unique-bikes.de/images/316303a2a614e6527.jpg

Mfg Michael

michih.   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by michih. » Dec 31 2019 4:01pm

izeman wrote:
Dec 31 2019 7:09am
Hmmm... The more I read the more concerned I become. Now that I have the motor delivered I see what a tiny little motor that really is. Not only compared to one of my DD Crystalyte motor, but also compared to a MAC hubmotor or even a Bafang BBS.
I also now see why this is REALLY only a 500W motor, and nothing more. 750W max for burst. Ok.
But not like the BBSHD that claims 750W and can be run at double the Watts. Or my MAC converted to mid drive that runs 3000W happily (with a modified cooling system of course).
So this motor is really a pedelec motor, something that helps you through head winds and light hills (not mountains). It seems it's not up to mountain biking of any kind. I see broken axles, broken cases, broken gears and burnt windings - even when run under rated conditions.
I bought this because I like tinkering and I LOVE what casinho and others did to the firmware. Looks amazing. And I recommended that motor over a BBSHD to a friend as I thought it's more advanced (which it is because of the torque sensor and advanced software) - I just hope it's up to his expectations and doesn't break after the first ride, and I hope my friend won't be disappointed.
All my fault of course, I should have gone through the several thousand posts and read BEFORE I buy/recommend. Let's keep the fingers crossed and hope that it will all be fine next year - tomorrow! 8) :lol:
The new truckrun Motors Looks better....

Mfg Michael

Nightdiver13   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Nightdiver13 » Dec 31 2019 5:14pm

casainho wrote:
Dec 31 2019 1:46pm
New MTB bicycles with BB 24mm compatibility with TSDZ2

The guys at the shop told me the BB characteristics are:
- with: 68-73mm
- diameter: 24mm
- type: BSC/BSA

Can someone please help to understand if/howTSDZ2 can be installed?? All new good bicycles has this BB, I hope TSDZ2 can be installed...
The bottom bracket is different (external bearings), but the bottom bracket shell is identical to the vast majority of "standard" shells that would accept an internal bearing bottom bracket (ISIS, square taper, etc). Short answer, this is the shell that TSDZ2 and BBSxx were designed for.

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Dec 31 2019 5:21pm

Nightdiver13 wrote:
Dec 31 2019 5:14pm
casainho wrote:
Dec 31 2019 1:46pm
New MTB bicycles with BB 24mm compatibility with TSDZ2

The guys at the shop told me the BB characteristics are:
- with: 68-73mm
- diameter: 24mm
- type: BSC/BSA

Can someone please help to understand if/howTSDZ2 can be installed?? All new good bicycles has this BB, I hope TSDZ2 can be installed...
The bottom bracket is different (external bearings), but the bottom bracket shell is identical to the vast majority of "standard" shells that would accept an internal bearing bottom bracket (ISIS, square taper, etc). Short answer, this is the shell that TSDZ2 and BBSxx were designed for.
Many thanks for the very clear answer and details.

Thanks for everyone that helped.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

skestans   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by skestans » Jan 01 2020 3:30am

I'd like to add a temperature sensor to my TSDZ2. The OSS firmware wiki says they installed it without removing the cable in case they want to put the throttle back (https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... ottle-type)

I don't quite understand what that means... Is there a way to connect the temperature sensor without cutting the throttle cable and without removing the controller's potting? The only way the wiki sentence makes sense to me is that they cut the throttle wire, spliced the temperature sensor in, and they'll have to add a bit of wire to reconnect the throttle cable (from the connector) to the existing wire sticking out of the controller. I don't see how to connect it all without cutting the throttle cable and without removing the potting.

frenchie   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by frenchie » Jan 01 2020 4:16am

izeman wrote:
Dec 31 2019 7:09am
Hmmm... The more I read the more concerned I become. Now that I have the motor delivered I see what a tiny little motor that really is. Not only compared to one of my DD Crystalyte motor, but also compared to a MAC hubmotor or even a Bafang BBS.
I also now see why this is REALLY only a 500W motor, and nothing more. 750W max for burst. Ok.
But not like the BBSHD that claims 750W and can be run at double the Watts. Or my MAC converted to mid drive that runs 3000W happily (with a modified cooling system of course).
So this motor is really a pedelec motor, something that helps you through head winds and light hills (not mountains). It seems it's not up to mountain biking of any kind. I see broken axles, broken cases, broken gears and burnt windings - even when run under rated conditions.
I bought this because I like tinkering and I LOVE what casinho and others did to the firmware. Looks amazing. And I recommended that motor over a BBSHD to a friend as I thought it's more advanced (which it is because of the torque sensor and advanced software) - I just hope it's up to his expectations and doesn't break after the first ride, and I hope my friend won't be disappointed.
All my fault of course, I should have gone through the several thousand posts and read BEFORE I buy/recommend. Let's keep the fingers crossed and hope that it will all be fine next year - tomorrow! 8) :lol:
that maybe true but the BBSHD is TWICE the cost of the TSDZ2 ie $605 vs $290!
I'm the sort of guy that has been driving for a long time and I much prefer a 1 tonne car with 150bhp as opposed to a 2.5 tonne monster truck with 350bhp that can't go around corners :wink: .....but in the US they think a lot different to the 'light and nimble Europeans' :lol:
Hmm I just had another look and the 750w BBS02 with a 850c is 'only' $385 so you got me thinking now lol :confused:
I still can't believe someone can do 100km in 'mountain conditions' with only a 300w battery supply on this little thing, that's a massive plus right there!
Happy new year! here's some light entertainment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJeWySiuq1I

Wapous   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Wapous » Jan 02 2020 12:57am

izeman wrote:
Dec 31 2019 7:09am
Hmmm... The more I read the more concerned I become. Now that I have the motor delivered I see what a tiny little motor that really is.
All my fault of course, I should have gone through the several thousand posts and read BEFORE I buy/recommend. Let's keep the fingers crossed and hope that it will all be fine next year - tomorrow! 8) :lol:
If you had read all the posts in this forum you would have seen as many positives as negatives.
And as with all forums owners without problems come more rarely.
In my experience I recommend this * SMALL * motor.
If you change gears (Cassette Gears) when necessary this engine will last several thousand kilometers. Even on mountain roads.
But the vocation of this engine in my opinion is not for mountain trails. (Off-road trails)

RicMcK   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RicMcK » Jan 02 2020 9:31am

I have a 48v system with LCD3, running V0.19 FW with temp sensor, thermal pads, with 42/53 chain rings, and 8 cogs on the rear, on my "trek touring bike".

I have about 1,000km of trouble free riding. I really like the setup, it feels like riding my racing bike (less 30 years).

I live in Seattle where there are lots of hills, and I typically run at level 2, out of 6 on the flats @ about 32km/h.

I highly recommend this setup for the "real bike" feel. I am looking forward to the P850C, and v2. 0 FW,however right now I don't have a need to upgrade.

I hope to put the same setup on our Canandale tandem this spring, by putting both chain rings on the drive side.

Thanks for everyone's advice and ideas.
Rick Seattle WA

Retrorockit   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Retrorockit » Jan 02 2020 3:18pm

.but in the US they think a lot different to the 'light and nimble Europeans'

My pedal bike is a 7000 series aluminium XC softtail competition spec. XC bike. frame 1 size small for me, with 26" Mavic wheels and a Rockshox SID fork, carbon bars. Schwalbe Kojak 2" slicks. 175mm cranks. It accelerates, climbs, and handles just fine on the street thank you. I have no intention of screwing it up by adding a motor. IDK what it weighs but it's as light as my budget would allow.
Smaller, lighter ,and cheaper doesn't always equal better. In the case of the VW beetle it did. In the case of the Yugo/ etcetera, not so much. The size of the TSDZ2 is not the issue.
The good handling German cars sell very well over here. VW , Audi, Porsche, and Mercedes. The German Ford (Merkur, Capri) ,and GM (Opels) came and went with the others. People actually pay a premium for them compared to US , and Japanese offerings. Quality is the reason. The TSDZ2 could have been a player over here. It's "features" are appealing. It's quality appalling.

In the US we don't have punitive tax structures trying ot force us to buy smaller vehicles. There are some Corpoarate average fuel comsumption goals to be met. Also a gas guzzler tax if you get it too far wrong. But Rolls Royce, and Bentley don't seem to care do they?
You guys may not know it but our Chrysler 5.7 liter Hemis spend almost all of their time running in 4 cylinder mode.

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izeman   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by izeman » Jan 02 2020 5:06pm

frenchie wrote:
Jan 01 2020 4:16am
...I'm the sort of guy that has been driving for a long time and I much prefer a 1 tonne car with 150bhp as opposed to a 2.5 tonne monster truck with 350bhp that can't go around corners :wink: .....but in the US they think a lot different to the 'light and nimble Europeans' :lol:
I'm european as you may see from my avatar :) But I don't want to start a US vs EU debate please. There are ppl who like pedal bike like bikes over here and there, and same goes for motorcycle like bikes.
I was addressing the power rating of this motor. It's important to know that this 500W motor really is a 500W motor and 750W is PEAK only. Future will tell how good it is for my need.

commutebybicycle.com   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by commutebybicycle.com » Jan 02 2020 5:16pm

Hello everyone! I am looking to build a TSD-Z2 with the 860c display.

Does anyone know when firmware beta v0.20 will be out of 'beta' mode? Since I'm just now jumping in, I figure I should wait since it seems there are a lot of great upgrades and I'm guessing it is happening soon.

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izeman   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by izeman » Jan 03 2020 5:17am

commutebybicycle.com wrote:
Jan 02 2020 5:16pm
Does anyone know when firmware beta v0.20 will be out of 'beta' mode?
What's wrong with BETA? You can go with that. And you know after 0.20 release there will be a 0.30 beta at the same time .... So a never ending story :wink:

Elinx   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Jan 03 2020 6:59am

commutebybicycle.com wrote:
Jan 02 2020 5:16pm
Hello everyone! I am looking to build a TSD-Z2 with the 860c display. ..........
FW v0.20 is only for KT lcd3 and this beta release is the most stable version.
Also 850C and SW102 has a working version and there is a seperate version for default displays vlcd5 vlcd6 xh18. All these are based on v0.19 (850c >> v0.50). So imho no version currently supports 860c

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jan 03 2020 7:34am

Elinx wrote:
Jan 03 2020 6:59am
commutebybicycle.com wrote:
Jan 02 2020 5:16pm
Hello everyone! I am looking to build a TSD-Z2 with the 860c display. ..........
FW v0.20 is only for KT lcd3 and this beta release is the most stable version.
Also 850C and SW102 has a working version and there is a seperate version for default displays vlcd5 vlcd6 xh18. All these are based on v0.19 (850c >> v0.50). So imho no version currently supports 860c
Follow the wiki to see the installation and configuration instructions: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... _wiki/wiki

and you will see 860C is not supported. If you want it to be supported, then send me as donation a 860C and I will start investigating if it can be supported.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

sysrq   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sysrq » Jan 03 2020 10:27am

itchyfoot42 wrote:
Feb 19 2018 10:26pm
crazy, I get the same "rumble" in the feet with slow easy pedaling. If I am where congestion will cause it for a period of time I switch the power to off (ran into that riding with a dozen trikes in a parade Saturday - lots of start - slow - stop - repeat).

I have no resistance with the battery off, or with the battery on and power set to off.
I only got coarse rumbling/vibration in cranks once when not allowing the motor to go trough the proper initial calibration of the torque sensor upon startup.
Last edited by sysrq on Jan 04 2020 11:32am, edited 1 time in total.

michih.   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by michih. » Jan 03 2020 3:12pm

casainho wrote:
Jan 03 2020 7:34am
Elinx wrote:
Jan 03 2020 6:59am
commutebybicycle.com wrote:
Jan 02 2020 5:16pm
Hello everyone! I am looking to build a TSD-Z2 with the 860c display. ..........
FW v0.20 is only for KT lcd3 and this beta release is the most stable version.
Also 850C and SW102 has a working version and there is a seperate version for default displays vlcd5 vlcd6 xh18. All these are based on v0.19 (850c >> v0.50). So imho no version currently supports 860c
Follow the wiki to see the installation and configuration instructions: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... _wiki/wiki

and you will see 860C is not supported. If you want it to be supported, then send me as donation a 860C and I will start investigating if it can be supported.

The 0.20.0 in the 850 or sw102 would be enough. 😂😂😂

Mfg Michael

_g_   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by _g_ » Jan 04 2020 11:03am

Not sure if better here or own thread, but...
My VLCD5 just shows all elements on; ie 88.8, 888.8 all graphs and other elements full.
It does this as soon as I plug it in, without pressing any buttons

Does anyone why and how it can be fixed? Ideally I'd like to use it tomorrow.

I got this motor with a XH18.
I've put the XH18 on the bike the VLCD5 came from and leant it to a friend (my plan was always to have that display on that bike, keeping it compact).
I was hoping to flash the firmware and use the 850C display I got for the purpose. However going to do it today, I realised I hadn't clicked that the USBUART and STLinkV2 were different items - so I've only got the STLinkV2 and will need to order the other.

The cable from the VLCD5 had previously been broken, so I had used the plug end of that to attach to the 850C, which is now soldered up.
I've just wired up the spare plug end from the other cable I had to the VLCD5, keeping the colours consistent.

I could flash the motor firmrware today, but not the 850C display - I'm presuming that won't help me get it to work with either display.

esteel   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by esteel » Jan 04 2020 3:07pm

I switched from the KT-LCD3 to Bafang 850c and speed sensor with Y splitter for lights. The speedometer reading is now about 50% too high according to GPS. Does anyone know what the issue could be?


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casainho   10 GW

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Re: New

Post by casainho » Jan 04 2020 6:37pm

esteel wrote:
Jan 04 2020 3:07pm
I switched from the KT-LCD3 to Bafang 850c and speed sensor with Y splitter for lights. The speedometer reading is now about 50% too high according to GPS. Does anyone know what the issue could be?
That is really strange...

To have it correct, it need to have only one magnet on the wheel and setup on display the correct wheel perimeter. It should work well.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New

Post by mctubster » Jan 04 2020 9:55pm

casainho wrote:
Jan 04 2020 6:37pm
esteel wrote:
Jan 04 2020 3:07pm
I switched from the KT-LCD3 to Bafang 850c and speed sensor with Y splitter for lights. The speedometer reading is now about 50% too high according to GPS. Does anyone know what the issue could be?
That is really strange...

To have it correct, it need to have only one magnet on the wheel and setup on display the correct wheel perimeter. It should work well.
What about metric vs imperial? 1.6x factor

esteel   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by esteel » Jan 05 2020 2:33am

Both readings are too high, mph numbers are slightly above km/h numbers on GPS. All other functions are correct. I measured wheel circumference in mm, 2195 for 700c wheel with 42mm tire.


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obcd   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by obcd » Jan 05 2020 5:05pm

If you test it without the y splitter cable, are the speed readings different?
Did you only change the displays, or the firmware version as well?

esteel   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by esteel » Jan 05 2020 5:18pm

obcd wrote:If you test it without the y splitter cable, are the speed readings different?
Did you only change the displays, or the firmware version as well?
I flashed the 850c firmware to the new display, but will try a different speed sensor cable. I had ordered two from Aliexpress, not sure if there are different manufacturers or quality issues with that. Maybe I’ll test it with the original sensor first.


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el_proletario   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by el_proletario » Jan 05 2020 5:37pm

Hope you guys can help me on this. I have been struggling a couple of days with my motor.
After hearing creaking noise (for sure not the pedal or crank) on the drive side I decided to open it and see if I could regrease and at the same time check the bearing condition.
The problem is that I couldn't remove the large circlip so no access to the bearing, I could only remove the small circlip, so I just regreased and remounted the whole thing. I discovered that now the axis can slide within the bottom bracket so there's around 1cm play from left to right.

I think the small circlip is not doing its job anymore, I tried to put it right again but it doesn't stop the axis from moving.

Should I just replace the small circlip ?
Or this means the bearing is dead and I should also replace it ?

I could see some brownish liquid around the axis, could be that the bearing is dead and caused the creaking noise.

Anybody has the bearing reference I should order for the drive side ? (It's the coaster brake version by the way).

Thanks a lot

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jan 05 2020 6:41pm

el_proletario wrote:
Jan 05 2020 5:37pm
Anybody has the bearing reference I should order for the drive side ? (It's the coaster brake version by the way).
See the FAQ on the wiki, it has the references for all the bearings.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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