New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
r0mko   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by r0mko » Mar 31 2020 3:33am

Hasse67 wrote:
Mar 28 2020 7:03am
I know it's been warned about this before, by casainho and maybe others, but I'm putting out a new heads-up for this.
I was careless enough to just mount the rear torque arm and forgot the 2 outer screws closest to crank arm, and after only 3 trips with my new motor, chinesium housing was cracked :( so it is very important all fixing points are used :warn:
Does anyone know if I can buy a replacement anywhere in Europe?
Tsdz2 Cracked.JPG
Wow, serious damage. I have a couple of spare housings (old style) in decent condition so I can send you one from Germany.

ilu   1 W

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Re: New

Post by ilu » Mar 31 2020 6:04am

andrewgateway wrote:
Mar 30 2020 2:29pm

After installing the second bearing in this way, have you tried to remove the bearing. If it is installed outside the snap ring I foresee a problem removing the bearing?
When you remove the snap rings and main gear from the drive side, you can push the axle out of the left side and removing the bearing should be no problem.

Lateral play can also be fixed by putting thin washers on the inner side of the snap ring, but I didn't find suitable washers locally so adding the second bearing was simpler option for me.
Attachments
Eco Cycles TSDZ2 Lateral Axle Play Fix.pdf
(217.05 KiB) Downloaded 114 times

Elinx   100 W

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Re: New

Post by Elinx » Mar 31 2020 11:18am

ilu wrote:
Mar 31 2020 6:04am
.......
When you remove the snap rings and main gear from the drive side, you can push the axle out of the left side and removing the bearing should be no problem.....
Andrea_104KG has added the second bearing and has made a photo-report on the Italian Jobike forum

jeff.page.rides   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jeff.page.rides » Mar 31 2020 12:33pm

I installed my shift sensor and wow does it shift great. The second I push my shift button the motor stops it shifts fast, smooth, and quiet. Now the problem is it powers off for about 2 seconds and about 2 revolutions at 75 RPM before the power comes back on, that's a long dead-spot. I am using an LCD3 with version 20 beta 1.
But very soon I'll be moving to the 860C and casainho's latest firmware.
Is there a way in the firmware that we can speed up this power back on, to only a half a second?

Will this setting help?

Motor acceleration adjustment 0 %
Default value = 0 %
36 volt motor, 36 volt battery = 35 %
36 volt motor, 48 volt battery = 5 %
36 volt motor, 52 volt battery = 0 %
48 volt motor, 36 volt battery = 45 %
48 volt motor, 48 volt battery = 35 %
48 volt motor, 52 volt battery = 30 %

knutselmaaster   1 kW

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Location: near Paris, France

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by knutselmaaster » Mar 31 2020 12:44pm

jeff.page.rides wrote:
Mar 31 2020 12:33pm
I installed my shift sensor and wow does it shift great. The second I push my shift button the motor stops it shifts fast, smooth, and quiet. Now the problem is it powers off for about 2 seconds and about 2 revolutions at 75 RPM before the power comes back on, that's a long dead-spot. I am using an LCD3 with version 20 beta 1.
But very soon I'll be moving to the 860C and casainho's latest firmware.
Is there a way in the firmware that we can speed up this power back on, to only a half a second?

Will this setting help?

Motor acceleration adjustment 0 %
Default value = 0 %
36 volt motor, 36 volt battery = 35 %
36 volt motor, 48 volt battery = 5 %
36 volt motor, 52 volt battery = 0 %
48 volt motor, 36 volt battery = 45 %
48 volt motor, 48 volt battery = 35 %
48 volt motor, 52 volt battery = 30 %
My contact at gearsensor told me that there is a special firmware for the TSDZ2 motor for use with gearsensors, where the interruption is way shorter.
I'm unaware how this works, if it is able to detect a difference between a normal brake sensor signal and a gearsensor signal or if it has just a shortened interruption.

jeff.page.rides   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jeff.page.rides » Mar 31 2020 12:48pm

knutselmaaster wrote:
Mar 31 2020 12:44pm
jeff.page.rides wrote:
Mar 31 2020 12:33pm
I installed my shift sensor and wow does it shift great. The second I push my shift button the motor stops it shifts fast, smooth, and quiet. Now the problem is it powers off for about 2 seconds and about 2 revolutions at 75 RPM before the power comes back on, that's a long dead-spot. I am using an LCD3 with version 20 beta 1.
But very soon I'll be moving to the 860C and casainho's latest firmware.
Is there a way in the firmware that we can speed up this power back on, to only a half a second?

Will this setting help?

Motor acceleration adjustment 0 %
Default value = 0 %
36 volt motor, 36 volt battery = 35 %
36 volt motor, 48 volt battery = 5 %
36 volt motor, 52 volt battery = 0 %
48 volt motor, 36 volt battery = 45 %
48 volt motor, 48 volt battery = 35 %
48 volt motor, 52 volt battery = 30 %
My contact at gearsensor told me that there is a special firmware for the TSDZ2 motor for use with gearsensors, where the interruption is way shorter.
I'm unaware how this works, if it is able to detect a difference between a normal brake sensor signal and a gearsensor signal or if it has just a shortened interruption.
Do you know if this special firmware works with our current versions as an add on or is it something that works with the factory firmware?

twiersum   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by twiersum » Mar 31 2020 1:06pm

Just an FYI I have been running my motors at 16s 67.2V and it's been holding up well. Keep in mind this is MTB and I mostly ride at level 1 & 2 at 80 & 120 so I'm not pushing heavy amps.

I also added a zerc fitting and filled my cases with thermal di electric grease. It transfers heat very well imho.

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Mar 31 2020 1:17pm

twiersum wrote:
Mar 31 2020 1:06pm
Just an FYI I have been running my motors at 16s 67.2V and it's been holding up well. Keep in mind this is MTB and I mostly ride at level 1 & 2 at 80 & 120 so I'm not pushing heavy amps.
Good to know!!

What do you mean by 80 and 120?
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

casainho   10 GW

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Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Mar 31 2020 1:23pm

jeff.page.rides wrote:
Mar 31 2020 12:48pm
Do you know if this special firmware works with our current versions as an add on or is it something that works with the factory firmware?
Maybe increasing the current ramp feature can help you: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... ller_Setup
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

knutselmaaster   1 kW

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Joined: Apr 05 2014 6:50am
Location: near Paris, France

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by knutselmaaster » Mar 31 2020 1:24pm

jeff.page.rides wrote:
Mar 31 2020 12:48pm
knutselmaaster wrote:
Mar 31 2020 12:44pm
jeff.page.rides wrote:
Mar 31 2020 12:33pm
I installed my shift sensor and wow does it shift great. The second I push my shift button the motor stops it shifts fast, smooth, and quiet. Now the problem is it powers off for about 2 seconds and about 2 revolutions at 75 RPM before the power comes back on, that's a long dead-spot. I am using an LCD3 with version 20 beta 1.
But very soon I'll be moving to the 860C and casainho's latest firmware.
Is there a way in the firmware that we can speed up this power back on, to only a half a second?

Will this setting help?

Motor acceleration adjustment 0 %
Default value = 0 %
36 volt motor, 36 volt battery = 35 %
36 volt motor, 48 volt battery = 5 %
36 volt motor, 52 volt battery = 0 %
48 volt motor, 36 volt battery = 45 %
48 volt motor, 48 volt battery = 35 %
48 volt motor, 52 volt battery = 30 %
My contact at gearsensor told me that there is a special firmware for the TSDZ2 motor for use with gearsensors, where the interruption is way shorter.
I'm unaware how this works, if it is able to detect a difference between a normal brake sensor signal and a gearsensor signal or if it has just a shortened interruption.
Do you know if this special firmware works with our current versions as an add on or is it something that works with the factory firmware?
No, sorry.
The guy at gearsensor told me that I should order the motor with the specific firmware to be sure of optimal functionality of the gearsensor.
According to him, it really makes a big difference.
I have 20 of these sensors in stock now but haven't had time to play with them yet.

casainho   10 GW

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Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Mar 31 2020 1:28pm

knutselmaaster wrote:
Mar 31 2020 1:24pm
The guy at gearsensor told me that I should order the motor with the specific firmware to be sure of optimal functionality of the gearsensor.
According to him, it really makes a big difference.
Then tell that you want to use the sensor with the OpenSource firmware and ask the changes on the firmware or specifications or source code of the firmware.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

User avatar
windburner   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by windburner » Mar 31 2020 1:31pm

twiersum wrote:
Mar 31 2020 1:06pm
I also added a zerc fitting and filled my cases with thermal di electric grease. It transfers heat very well imho.
How much time do you have with this approach? I'd be interested to see the details of exactly what you did, if you are willing to share.
TerraTrike Rover Tandem - TSDZ2 48V 750W - 13AH Batteries - VLCD6-->SW102/v0.6.8 OSF-->VLCD6 -->XH18

RicMcK   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RicMcK » Mar 31 2020 1:45pm

windburner wrote:
Mar 31 2020 1:31pm
twiersum wrote:
Mar 31 2020 1:06pm
I also added a zerc fitting and filled my cases with thermal di electric grease. It transfers heat very well imho.
How much time do you have with this approach? I'd be interested to see the details of exactly what you did, if you are willing to share.
I did this (attachment) and it seems to work great. I like the idea of a Zerc fitting to better fill the gaps. I will be doing the same modification to my second motor and I will make more detailed DIY instructions, however, I will not be able to do it until late next month.
Attachments
TDSZ2 thermal.pdf
(2.63 MiB) Downloaded 103 times
Rick Seattle WA

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by john61ct » Mar 31 2020 1:59pm


twiersum wrote:
Mar 31 2020 1:06pm
I also added a zerc fitting and filled my cases with thermal di electric grease. It transfers heat very well imho.
Link to the grease used?

jeff.page.rides   100 W

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Joined: Aug 13 2019 10:16am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jeff.page.rides » Mar 31 2020 5:50pm

jeff.page.rides wrote:
Mar 31 2020 12:33pm
I installed my shift sensor and wow does it shift great. The second I push my shift button the motor stops it shifts fast, smooth, and quiet. Now the problem is it powers off for about 2 seconds and about 2 revolutions at 75 RPM before the power comes back on, that's a long dead-spot. I am using an LCD3 with version 20 beta 1.
But very soon I'll be moving to the 860C and casainho's latest firmware.
Is there a way in the firmware that we can speed up this power back on, to only a half a second?

Will this setting help?

Motor acceleration adjustment 0 %
Default value = 0 %
36 volt motor, 36 volt battery = 35 %
36 volt motor, 48 volt battery = 5 %
36 volt motor, 52 volt battery = 0 %
48 volt motor, 36 volt battery = 45 %
48 volt motor, 48 volt battery = 35 %
48 volt motor, 52 volt battery = 30 %
I just finished a ride on my handcycle with the power turned down on the TSDZ2 closer to what a normal person would use. When I'm providing one-third the power and the TSDZ2 puts out two-thirds power I have to slow my rotation at the same time I shift. That's better than it used to be I had to jerk it back quickly and then go forward again to get it to shift. When I have it turned up so it's providing the majority of the power just shifting is enough to shift and I don't have to alter my pedal pressure at all.

fireflyer451   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by fireflyer451 » Mar 31 2020 8:52pm

jeff.page.rides

I found that I did not need the Gear Sensor on my trike. It reacted you described, a sort of on/off lurching. Not smooth. After disconnecting it, just lightly reducing pressure on the pedals allows pretty smooth shifting. I do not have to stop rotating pedals at all.

sysrq   100 W

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Re: New

Post by sysrq » Apr 01 2020 7:21am

ilu wrote:
Mar 31 2020 6:04am
andrewgateway wrote:
Mar 30 2020 2:29pm

After installing the second bearing in this way, have you tried to remove the bearing. If it is installed outside the snap ring I foresee a problem removing the bearing?
When you remove the snap rings and main gear from the drive side, you can push the axle out of the left side and removing the bearing should be no problem.

Lateral play can also be fixed by putting thin washers on the inner side of the snap ring, but I didn't find suitable washers locally so adding the second bearing was simpler option for me.
What about the right side? I think allowing play on the right side only might put more stress on the axle.

Elinx   100 W

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Re: New

Post by Elinx » Apr 01 2020 8:01am

sysrq wrote:
Apr 01 2020 7:21am
......
What about the right side? I think allowing play on the right side only might put more stress on the axle.
Again on the Italian Jobike forum someone has put a thin sheet of metal inside there. For that purpose you can use the metal of a feeler gauge.

jeff.page.rides   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jeff.page.rides » Apr 01 2020 11:54am

fireflyer451 wrote:
Mar 31 2020 8:52pm
jeff.page.rides

I found that I did not need the Gear Sensor on my trike. It reacted you described, a sort of on/off lurching. Not smooth. After disconnecting it, just lightly reducing pressure on the pedals allows pretty smooth shifting. I do not have to stop rotating pedals at all.
Using Nexus or Alfine hub with a TSDZ2 coaster brake motor that's turned up for my weak arms by holding reverse or negative tension to the pedals as the system boots up so that if I'm putting in 100-150 Watts I'm getting 600-650 Watts, is completely different than what most people are doing. At the same time, the things we're doing to the firmware to make this workout for me also helps the system work better for everyone.

twiersum   1 mW

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Re: New

Post by twiersum » Apr 01 2020 4:31pm

john61ct wrote:
Mar 31 2020 1:59pm
twiersum wrote:
Mar 31 2020 1:06pm
I also added a zerc fitting and filled my cases with thermal di electric grease. It transfers heat very well imho.
Link to the grease used?
Took 5 min. Keeps dust out.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Super-Lube- ... /304631855

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: New

Post by john61ct » Apr 01 2020 5:06pm


twiersum wrote: Took 5 min. Keeps dust out.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Super-Lube- ... /304631855
Thanks.

Hate silicone passionately though. Thinking maybe a self-curing potting compound, needs to stay flexible and with good thermal conductivity, but it seems most are pricey. . .


Brlowe   100 mW

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Looking for 860C manual

Post by Brlowe » Apr 01 2020 7:10pm

Does anyone have a link to the 860C display manual?
I have one and pulled the remote switch off it without looking at which connector it was one.
It will plug into both but the color only matches one of them but want to make sure that is the right one.
One connector is longer than the other also.

Thank you

casainho   10 GW

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Re: Looking for 860C manual

Post by casainho » Apr 01 2020 9:02pm

Brlowe wrote:
Apr 01 2020 7:10pm
Does anyone have a link to the 860C display manual?
I have one and pulled the remote switch off it without looking at which connector it was one.
It will plug into both but the color only matches one of them but want to make sure that is the right one.
One connector is longer than the other also.
The color for the motor controller is green and for the remote, I think is blue.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

Brlowe   100 mW

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Re: Looking for 860C manual

Post by Brlowe » Apr 02 2020 12:48am

casainho wrote:
Apr 01 2020 9:02pm
Brlowe wrote:
Apr 01 2020 7:10pm
Does anyone have a link to the 860C display manual?
I have one and pulled the remote switch off it without looking at which connector it was one.
It will plug into both but the color only matches one of them but want to make sure that is the right one.
One connector is longer than the other also.
The color for the motor controller is green and for the remote, I think is blue.
They were both green but the remote is a darker green. The 850c I think had the blue remote connector.

Cristian   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Cristian » Apr 02 2020 9:49am

Cristian wrote:
Mar 20 2020 11:38am
Cristian wrote:
Mar 19 2020 10:24am
I searched around, but i can't find much about play in the axle. It started today, it's about 1-2mm of play. What is the cause? What do i have to replace?
Does anyone know what is causing play in the axle?
I opened the motor and it looks like the clutch bearing is causing the play. I have 2300km with the OSF firmware and KT-LCD3. I always ride hard in traffic, so it did take some abuse.

I will replace the bearing, do the motor temperature dissipation mods and switch to the 850C display. Too bad i already bought it a while ago, i would have bought the 860C now. Next time i guess.

Anyways, the OSF firmware is amazing. Thank you again to everybody who is involved in this project.

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