New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomjasz » Aug 03 2017 2:19pm

larryblee wrote:Greetings to all.

I purchased a throttle that fits the VLCD5 display and I can confirm the throttle does not function with this configuration.
Yes I found that out with the 48V as well. It takes a different display AND controller. I changed out the controller and got a new display. My unit came from them, a sample, without brakes or throttle. I explained that for the American market it would behove them to make sure they sell the cork controller and display for a throttle.


SO I have a spare controller and display for a system like yours, but 48V. If anyone needs them.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Aug 03 2017 2:35pm

tomjasz wrote:Yes I found that out with the 48V as well. It takes a different display AND controller. I changed out the controller and got a new display. My unit came from them, a sample, without brakes or throttle. I explained that for the American market it would behove them to make sure they sell the cork controller and display for a throttle.
So... Do you know if BOTH the display AND controller need to be updated? Can you try with the other VLCD-5 please?

What I'd like to find out is if MAYBE the unit wants to see a pair (or at least one) hand-brake cut-out switch installed before enabling the throttle? Anyone know?

I'm moderately injured - WHY I bought a damned throttle, thinking in advance it could happen - and I can't use it! MADDENING! FRUSTRATING!

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomjasz » Aug 03 2017 10:03pm

RTIII wrote:
tomjasz wrote:Yes I found that out with the 48V as well. It takes a different display AND controller. I changed out the controller and got a new display. My unit came from them, a sample, without brakes or throttle. I explained that for the American market it would behove them to make sure they sell the cork controller and display for a throttle.
So... Do you know if BOTH the display AND controller need to be updated? Can you try with the other VLCD-5 please?

What I'd like to find out is if MAYBE the unit wants to see a pair (or at least one) hand-brake cut-out switch installed before enabling the throttle? Anyone know?

I'm moderately injured - WHY I bought a damned throttle, thinking in advance it could happen - and I can't use it! MADDENING! FRUSTRATING!
Yes BOTH. I have them on my bench. If i have time ill take picture to log the differences. The new controller and display was provided byTongsheng when i insisted i needed a throttle to test. Blame it on the seller. The devil is in the missed detail by us. Ive been riding my original BBS02 with maximum PAS an really don't need a throttle. I only insisted because USA customers get all bent out of shape if their ebike cant operate like a PTW. Just bump up the totrque response and move your legs. Sorry, i get the frustration, but sadly you need both. Since you bought without confirming, its on you. Sucks but thats the story...
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomjasz » Aug 03 2017 10:15pm

3 1/2 years ago i bought a mid drive, my first of 9 differnt motors, to use on my bike. Not realizing that old school back pedal braking wasn't compatible with a mid drive. I had to buy a new bike. Overlooking and n00b mistakes are embarassing and sometimes expensive but i learned to ask questions first, hit pay now later.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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eyebyesickle   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Aug 03 2017 10:28pm

I haven't had a problem with the different display, but these guys don't connect a single wire if they don't have to during manufacturing. Unreal =)

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomjasz » Aug 03 2017 10:35pm

eyebyesickle wrote:I haven't had a problem with the different display, but these guys don't connect a single wire if they don't have to during manufacturing. Unreal =)
There isn't a problem other than a throttle won't work....

Have a technical training manual yet?

Software?

Anything more than i posted?
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Aug 03 2017 10:53pm

tomjasz wrote:3 1/2 years ago i bought a mid drive, my first of 9 differnt motors, to use on my bike. Not realizing that old school back pedal braking wasn't compatible with a mid drive. I had to buy a new bike. Overlooking and n00b mistakes are embarassing and sometimes expensive but i learned to ask questions first, hit pay now later.
I don't blame the seller. I told them I wanted the throttle along with other features that weren't common (only two months ago), such as 48V... They made me wait a LONG time to "get one in stock", then told me it was in stock but no throttle. It was their terrible English that didn't differentiate between CANNOT have throttle and DOESN'T have throttle. And, I didn't force the issue. I now suspect they know the difference and shut up to make the sale. But, it's still on me, since I well know about ESL issues, and have for decades. -shrug- I'll live.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Aug 03 2017 10:57pm

tomjasz wrote:[...snip...]Just bump up the totrque response and move your legs.
I can readily move only one to a reasonable level ATM, hence the need for a throttle. I suppose if I had a toe-clip... -shrug-

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomjasz » Aug 03 2017 11:01pm

RTIII wrote:
tomjasz wrote:[...snip...]Just bump up the totrque response and move your legs.
I can readily move only one to a reasonable level
, hence the need for a throttle. I suppose if I had a toe-clip... -shrug-
I won't deny frustration, but the sale page didn't indicate throttle compatibility. I feel the pain...
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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eyebyesickle   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Aug 04 2017 1:17am

tomjasz wrote:
eyebyesickle wrote:I haven't had a problem with the different display, but these guys don't connect a single wire if they don't have to during manufacturing. Unreal =)
There isn't a problem other than a throttle won't work....

Have a technical training manual yet?

Software?

Anything more than i posted?
... Throttle not working is a problem for sure...

I have a few resources etc... posted links to it back, and then the dropbox again for you a few messages back...

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by extrasilver » Aug 04 2017 2:15am

@tomjasz

are you 100% sure that you need a new display along with the controller? it could possible be that your original controller had a fault or something to do within the settings list for example the county code, does it say EUR , JAP or something else like USA? maybe its an issue like this that's stopping the throttle from working


@eyebyesickle

i purchased a metal gear from you last night also :D
thought id give you a heads up in case the controller is coming from china, it may as well travel along with the metal gear
“Speed has never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you.” -Jeremy Clarkson
if it has boobies or wheels.. its going to cost you money

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Brandon314159 » Aug 04 2017 4:39pm

I asked earlier but perhaps it got overlooked,

Has anyone measured to see if the factory throttle is just a 3-pin potentiometer? Interested in seeing if my setup is compatible before I order any parts.

Thanks!
-Brandon

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Djoze » Aug 05 2017 3:44am

Hi all,
My first message on this fantastic forum. I am amazed by the quality and the sharpness of the content. After six hours reading the whole TSDZ2 topic, I decided to give this motor a try.

I bought a 48V 18A 750W on Aliexpress: https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shi ... st=ae803_2

Ordered the 30th of July (Sunday), received in France on Friday August 5. That was fast!
Price was 329,24€ minus 20,54€ (Aliexpress Savings) = 308,70€, shipping included. I paid 30€ for customs VAT.
TOTAL = 328,70€ (USD387).

I don’t have the battery yet, so I can’t test it, but the motor is labelled "DC48V - 4000rpm - 18A".

I measured the weight:
Motor: 3900g (8.6lb - 137.6oz)
Cranks: 440g (0.97lb - 15.5oz)
XH18-LCD Display: 145g (0.32lb – 5.1oz)
Cables: 75g (0.16lb – 2.6oz)
TOTAL WEIGHT: 4560g (10.05lb - 160.8oz)

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This motor will replace my 730g (1.61lb - 25.4oz) Dura Ace 7900 crankset. Quite a difference!

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by matte2k » Aug 06 2017 5:49am

Is it also possible to use the coaster brake version of the motor if I switch it to a bike without coaster brake funktion further on?
What is the difference? The cost is normally 10-40 usd extra so it cant be much difference...

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Aug 06 2017 11:19am

matte2k wrote:Is it also possible to use the coaster brake version of the motor if I switch it to a bike without coaster brake funktion further on?
What is the difference? The cost is normally 10-40 usd extra so it cant be much difference...
The coaster-brake function is available as an extra-cost option and, if I recall correctly, it's about $25 USD. If you think you want it "later on" I recommend you order it with your TSDZ2 and stash the part where you won't lose it. ... I think it's a separate, descrete part, and NOT built into the unit itself. But ask your vendor to be sure.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by aja » Aug 07 2017 1:24pm

Has anyone posted a video or could post a video of the sound emanating from a newish TSDZ2 motor - I'm looking at other options as I'm after a near silent e-assist to fit into my velomobile where sound is amplified, thus the quieter the better. Although it's not that loud, my TSDZ2 does whirr when under higher load. Looking at MAC and Q128H motors as well as other mid drives for inspiration, if the latest TSDZ isn't a fair bit quieter. I'm told Direct Drive are near silent but then one has issues of cogging or as someone suggested, running at very low assist (25W) so that cogging is eliminated but that is still lost power.
With the 48V motor, is one supported when one pedals at a higher cadence? I find my 36V one cuts support too early as I ride a recumbent with short cranks, thus spin them faster.
I've watched a couple of videos online of the TSDZ2, one recorded in June this year, and mine sounds quite similar; this is the TSDZ2B 500W motor so I guess it must be quite new: Noise can be heard at 03:04 onwards https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8FFOSwGLzU

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Daytriker » Aug 07 2017 2:06pm

I don't have videos but can offer a comparison. Most of my installs have been Brushless, Geared Hub Motors on trikes. The model I have been using is the Bafang 350 watt/36 volt in 20 inch wheels. I have just recently started to install the Tongsheng TSDZ2 350 watt/36 volt Crank Drives. Both units free wheel without any friction at all. So far, with admitted limited riding experience on the Crank Drives I would stay with the Hub Motors. In my opinion the power application is far more seamless on the hub motors. You get a satisfying 'push' in the back, noise level is negligible & what noise there is is behind the rider. With the Crank Drives, you have motor noise plus the chain noise feeding through the motor & it is in front of the rider. I am quite sure this would be amplified considerably in a velo. Installation of the TSD (Don't make me type out that annoying moniker again!) is simple, straight forward & should not cause any problems with chain line or changing gears as long as you are installing in a 68mm std. Bottom Bracket. I just don't like the way the power comes on with the TSD motor preferring instead to have the constant power of the Bafang motor giving me better feedback on when to change gears. This could also be an 'Automatic' vs 'Standard' difference where I prefer to have the control of a Standard if this is a good analogy. The other thing you will find with installing the TSD in a velo is you will need a bigger Chainring than the supplied 42 tooth if you're velo has 20 inch drive wheel otherwise you will find it is geared too low.
Last edited by Daytriker on Aug 07 2017 7:49pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Triketech » Aug 07 2017 2:58pm

Daytriker wrote:With the Crank Drives, you have motor noise plus the chain noise feeding through the motor & it is in front of the rider. I am quite sure this would be amplified considerably in a velo.
Good point, I forgot about that.

When I was testing the BBS02 at anything over about 300 watts the chain began to sing, quietly at first, with a bit of a groan above about 800 watts. Louder than the motor, which was actually pretty quiet.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by aja » Aug 07 2017 6:31pm

Yes, the additional chain is a concern with that arrangement though with the TSD it's not the chain I am hearing but the motor. Could one use a gates belt drive instead? Update: Just found out that Gates are launching a series of long belts, topping out at a 174 tooth belt, so one potentially could have a 2 belt system with a mid drive IGH.

I currently have the TSD fitted to my Windcheetah but previously had it fitted to my velomobile with 26 inch rear wheel, so I know the difference, and had a 56t chainring fitted to the TSD, with a 11-40 rear cassette. The cassette damaged my RD jockey wheels as it was a bit large for the space (the RD kept hitting the base of the velo's shell and shifting was tricky ultimately wearing down the jockey wheels), so now the velo has the original 11-36 cassette but without assist (back to 56/34 up front). I'm selling this velo but purchasing another one, but driving 2x 20 inch wheels at the rear so looking at having a different e-assist, since I've had this one over 2 years and interested to see if there is a better, quieter alternative.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Patoruzu » Aug 08 2017 2:16pm

An update on my 48v 18a 4000rpm installation as promised:

I ordered it with the xh18 display no throttle model.
My motor->cockpit cable was an Y cable. One connector went unconnected.
The seller told me this extra connector was for the throttle.

The display worked inconsistently. The seller said they delivered wrongly the 36v version and they delivered now for free the 48v version (attention, display is voltage dependent!!!). This one works sable.

I took the free delivery chance and also ordered the throttle, and it works (I was not sure it would, no breaks cables, I use it for testing) and a 52T (my original order was with a 42T). The seller said they will work in parallel.

The seller also told me that the most efficient rpm was 4000, that was the only wrong information so far. Wattage testing showed that under identical speed, a faster gear uses less wattage (of course this is what I expected)

As I implied, 52T and 42T chainrings work in parallel!!! The 52T is flat, the 42T is curved inwards towards the motor. That means the 42T improves the chainline about 0.5 cm. This curve works as a spacer, so and I can place the 52T next to it (still inwards from the spider). On the other side of the spider (same screw holes) goes the 52T chainring cover. The only problem was that now the 42T went further inwards (the width of the 52T) ant it touches the motor by as minimal fraction (you can see the marks on the 42T). But 5 thin washers on the 5 screws (inner side of the spider) corrects the issue
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I also upgraded my 9speeds 11-32 to 11 speeds 11-50. On the hills I was very happy with the original set up, but on the speed side sometimes (not very often) I felt I needed one more speed (when cruising too easily at 35km/h)
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As seen in the graphic above, just with the 11 speeds and the 52T I increased my max speed by 10km/h and I also considerately improved my performance on hills. The 42T gives me absurd hill performance which I do not need. I tested the parallel set up only for the community but I will stay 52T with 11-50 without front derailleur. This will also allow me to better optimize the chain length and have the 52T a little closer to the motor. Just the 42T thickness and the washers. Pity the 52T is not curved, maybe because it was the "parallel" version.

These are the chainline pics of 42T 9 speeds and 42T 11 spreeds. (BTW, the 11-50 worked out of the box with the Shimano M8000 long cage, no adapter needed, just the T screw down to its maximum was required)
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And the watt meter from Ali Express that was posted here a while ago. I think I need a larger handlebar.
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extrasilver   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by extrasilver » Aug 09 2017 3:39am

Hey there

ah so its true, there is a Y cable for a throttle along with a xh18 display?

i currently have the 36v 350w system but i have a 48v 18a controller on the way.. im 75% sure im going to need to purchase a new xh18 display tho :( they seem to advertise the display for 36/48v systems but im guessing they are programmed slightly differently for the voltage difference

anybody know where i could purchase a 48v xh18 display along with the Y cable for a throttle?? :)
“Speed has never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you.” -Jeremy Clarkson
if it has boobies or wheels.. its going to cost you money

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Patoruzu » Aug 09 2017 4:05am

extrasilver wrote:Hey there
ah so its true, there is a Y cable for a throttle along with a xh18 display?
Yes. I have been sent this cable by mistake though. And the true throttle version must be different, with some extra break connectors. That being said, I found the throttle totally useless as expected, you achieve same results in assist level 4.
extrasilver wrote: i currently have the 36v 350w system but i have a 48v 18a controller on the way.. im 75% sure im going to need to purchase a new xh18 display tho :(
As I said in my previous post, you need a new display. Something internally seems to get fried with do much voltage. Mine kept degrading despite working well during the first days.
extrasilver wrote: anybody know where i could purchase a 48v xh18 display along with the Y cable for a throttle?? :)
I bought all by Conhis Motor at Ali Express

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by extrasilver » Aug 09 2017 5:16am

36v 350w system + VLC5 screen
XH18 display
metal replacement gear
48v 18a controller
throttle
48v XH18 display
Y cable

this is turning out to be much more expensive than i thought :(
“Speed has never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you.” -Jeremy Clarkson
if it has boobies or wheels.. its going to cost you money

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Patoruzu » Aug 09 2017 5:28am

Why 3 displays?
Why throttle and Y cable?
Why throttle without breaks?
Why the metal gear?

If you want the 48v version why not just buy the 48v version of your choice and sell the 36v one? :)

BTW, though I have not done exhaustive testing, I hardly see my watt meter go above 250 watt. Are you sure your 350 are not "good enough" to justify extra spending?
Last edited by Patoruzu on Aug 09 2017 5:42am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by extrasilver » Aug 09 2017 5:42am

Patoruzu wrote:Why 3 displays?
Why throttle and Y cable?
Why throttle without breaks?
Why the metal gear?

If you want the 48v version why not just buy the 48v version of your choice and sell the 36v one? :)

i purchased the 36v 350w system with the VLC5 display because it thought it was the only version of this kit on the market

about 1 week later i discovered the 48v 16a version.. then the 48v 18a version and the XH18 display so i purchased one of the displays

after around 2 weeks of using the kit i discovered that i really really really wanted a throttle so i purchased one... and it didn't work! controller didn't play ball.

so then i purchased a new controller that works with a throttle ( 48v 18a one ) may as well up the wattage if i'm replacing the controller anyway.

as i'm riding a single speed track bike i decided to upgrade the plastic gear to a metal one due to the amount of torque needed when moving off from a stand still

now i've discovered that i need to purchase yet another display.. XH18 48V model with a Y cable for the throttle

i got myself into a mess xD
“Speed has never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you.” -Jeremy Clarkson
if it has boobies or wheels.. its going to cost you money

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