new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

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emaayan   100 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by emaayan » Jan 22 2016 5:14am

lantice13 wrote:All of you guys that are having jumpy throttles, I suggest upgrading to a proper programable controller that you can tweak the battery and phase amps ratio to something that starts smooth when you throttle up. this will save your gear box and bike drivetrain from having issues due to the tremendous amount of torque this kit has. Most probably the stock controller are configured for direct drive hub motor which requires a higher battery to phase amps ratio to turn that massive bicycle wheel without any reduction. In a mid drive you really don't need that as you already have all that reduction and the motor spinning easily from standstill. This is also applicable to the GNG and other Cyclone mid drives out there. How do I know? you don't wanna know lol, but got trails of parts to prove it till I found this solution from the threads of the high power hub motor guys.
i thought this thing comes with a kelly controller? is that programmable?
Trek 7.7 fx, 22.5" frame, 38x700c,10 gears.
ecospeed mid drive 1300 watt engine, max speed 45 kph.
battery1: 48v 14 ah, frame mounted battery, range 40km.
battery2(spare) 52v 10ah frame mounted bag, range, 30km.

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lantice13   100 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by lantice13 » Jan 22 2016 5:22am

emaayan wrote:
lantice13 wrote:All of you guys that are having jumpy throttles, I suggest upgrading to a proper programable controller that you can tweak the battery and phase amps ratio to something that starts smooth when you throttle up. this will save your gear box and bike drivetrain from having issues due to the tremendous amount of torque this kit has. Most probably the stock controller are configured for direct drive hub motor which requires a higher battery to phase amps ratio to turn that massive bicycle wheel without any reduction. In a mid drive you really don't need that as you already have all that reduction and the motor spinning easily from standstill. This is also applicable to the GNG and other Cyclone mid drives out there. How do I know? you don't wanna know lol, but got trails of parts to prove it till I found this solution from the threads of the high power hub motor guys.
i thought this thing comes with a kelly controller? is that programmable?
No not stock. there is an option though. I tried a kelly on my GNG but unfortunately the programming com port of that controller was damaged and I wasn't able to change the settings. So I said frock it and bought an em3ev infineon controller instead. That saved my whole gng build as I was able to change the settings. The kellies I believe don't have the same features but rather have the "torque mode" settings which I read should change how the controller applies the throttle.

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lantice13   100 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by lantice13 » Jan 22 2016 5:33am

I guess pictures helps. :D rated current is battery amps and phase current is phase amps. There are ratios like 1:2.5,1:3.0, 1:1.5, 1:2. you replace the value of 1 to your battery amps number and then multiply it to the numbers of the the other side of the colon. for example, your battery amps is set at 20 amps and you want to use the 1:2.5 ratio. So it's gonna be 20*2.5=50 so your phase amps value should be 50. you now have a setting of 20amps battery and 50 amps phase. you keep doing this until you find the settings you are satisfied with. :twisted:
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TorEddy   100 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by TorEddy » Jan 22 2016 9:56am

Me don't want big and bulky controllers.. me like Grin Phaserunner...
Something needs to be done with those e-bike controllers. So ugly, and hard to fit on a bike.
Small, waterproof controller to tuck away someplace, makes a clean looking e-bike. And of cource a usb interface.. this is 2016 goddamnit!

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gman1971   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by gman1971 » Jan 22 2016 10:52am

TorEddy wrote:Me don't want big and bulky controllers.. me like Grin Phaserunner...
Something needs to be done with those e-bike controllers. So ugly, and hard to fit on a bike.
Small, waterproof controller to tuck away someplace, makes a clean looking e-bike. And of cource a usb interface.. this is 2016 goddamnit!
Yeah, I wonder how good those PhaserRunners are... would consider one, but the one i have works just fine;

perhaps you could install a capacitor on the throttle output signal? since it uses voltage, putting a large cap in there will smooth down the voltage ramp up... just a thought.

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-3 trike, ?-kW, ??+ mph (Cyclone powered) Very fast, ludicrous speed fast...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by StinkyGoalieGuy » Jan 22 2016 12:08pm

I'm thinking of running this as a left side drive (single gear ratio). If I geared it down so that top speed was only 25MPH at 72volts, would it have enough torque to allow me to crawl up a 28% grade without pedaling? I would also need some pretty fine motor control to start from a stop on a hill and keep it around 10-15mph.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by tomjasz » Jan 22 2016 12:19pm

TorEddy wrote:Me don't want big and bulky controllers.. me like Grin Phaserunner...
Something needs to be done with those e-bike controllers. So ugly, and hard to fit on a bike.
Small, waterproof controller to tuck away someplace, makes a clean looking e-bike. And of cource a usb interface.. this is 2016 goddamnit!
Kinda like setting a .5K diamond in a pot metal ring....
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Mammalian04 » Jan 22 2016 12:44pm

gman1971 wrote:
TorEddy wrote:Me don't want big and bulky controllers.. me like Grin Phaserunner...
Something needs to be done with those e-bike controllers. So ugly, and hard to fit on a bike.
Small, waterproof controller to tuck away someplace, makes a clean looking e-bike. And of cource a usb interface.. this is 2016 goddamnit!
Yeah, I wonder how good those PhaserRunners are... would consider one, but the one i have works just fine;

perhaps you could install a capacitor on the throttle output signal? since it uses voltage, putting a large cap in there will smooth down the voltage ramp up... just a thought.

G.
I don't think I would want to anything smoothing on the way down! Can't the Cycle Analyst smooth this out of you don't want to mess with Phase amps (which shouldn't be that hard)?

I agree on the Phase runner. If Grin produced a .XML database with properly tuned profiles for common setups, I think sales would increase (at least by the couple I would buy)!

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gman1971   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by gman1971 » Jan 22 2016 1:03pm

Yes, you're right, the CA can limit power to the motor by adjusting throttle so you could potentially do something like that... me? haven't done it; and right now I feel its just perfect, b/c I still want my throttle snappy when I hammer it; if there is an emergency situation I don't want my throttle to be crippled...

G.
Mammalian04 wrote:
gman1971 wrote:
TorEddy wrote:Me don't want big and bulky controllers.. me like Grin Phaserunner...
Something needs to be done with those e-bike controllers. So ugly, and hard to fit on a bike.
Small, waterproof controller to tuck away someplace, makes a clean looking e-bike. And of cource a usb interface.. this is 2016 goddamnit!
Yeah, I wonder how good those PhaserRunners are... would consider one, but the one i have works just fine;

perhaps you could install a capacitor on the throttle output signal? since it uses voltage, putting a large cap in there will smooth down the voltage ramp up... just a thought.

G.
I don't think I would want to anything smoothing on the way down! Can't the Cycle Analyst smooth this out of you don't want to mess with Phase amps (which shouldn't be that hard)?

I agree on the Phase runner. If Grin produced a .XML database with properly tuned profiles for common setups, I think sales would increase (at least by the couple I would buy)!
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-3 trike, ?-kW, ??+ mph (Cyclone powered) Very fast, ludicrous speed fast...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by tomjasz » Jan 22 2016 9:05pm

Anyone have a motor handy to scale the motor shaft for a fellow user?
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by DingusMcGee » Jan 22 2016 9:14pm

tor eddy,

I got the cyclone 3000 kit up and insist the controller and throttle control work just fine. I guess you could spend more that half of what this kit cost on the relatively untested phaserunner that you justify only because of it small size? Well find the OEM controller on my bike. see pic.
Mod IMG_6434.jpg
The Luna Triangle pack can hold the OEM Cyclone 3000 controller concealed & a 52v 20aH battery
Mod IMG_6434.jpg (219 KiB) Viewed 5326 times
Today I got the ebrakes both wired with TEMCo Micro Limit Switch Lever Arm Subminiature SPDT Snap Action from ebay. The left side was easy for the avid hydraulic but for the right I screwed the long arm Snap Action switch to the OEM keyed throttle. see pics
Mod IMG_6430.jpg
a cable tie secures this Snap action switch
Mod IMG_6430.jpg (116.03 KiB) Viewed 5326 times
Mod IMG_6432.jpg
2 short sheet metal screws attach the Snap action Switch to the OEM right hand Throttle
Mod IMG_6432.jpg (134.25 KiB) Viewed 5326 times
Both switches offer easy adjustment by moving the brake lever handle at its handlebar clamp.

But once I quite wearing my down jacket while riding, I will have move the controller to where it gets more cooling.
Last edited by DingusMcGee on Jan 24 2016 6:39am, edited 1 time in total.

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lantice13   100 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by lantice13 » Jan 23 2016 6:02am

TorEddy wrote:Me don't want big and bulky controllers.. me like Grin Phaserunner...
Something needs to be done with those e-bike controllers. So ugly, and hard to fit on a bike.
Small, waterproof controller to tuck away someplace, makes a clean looking e-bike. And of cource a usb interface.. this is 2016 goddamnit!
LOL well how much is that phase runner compared to a regular ol 12fet infineon controller? Phaserunner runs at $295 and around $95 for a 12 fet infineon or cheaper which ever Chinese vendor you get it from. Hiding your wiring and getting controllers mounted and hidden in a nice manner is part any custom DIY build. if you need it to look OEM bike and cant figure out how to properly integrate your wiring harness and controller then get a bafang BBS-HD with an internal controller.
I've tried the CA v3 throttle tamer on a high powered dual motor MAC geared hubs. for some reason the throttle have this delay which softens up your throttle ramp up but also delays the throttle ramp down.... so if you throttle down, there is a delay with cutting the throttle. I don't know if I want to deal with all of that while I'm on my own bike. But anyway, bottom line is, you need a programmable controller for these kind of mid drives, it doesn't matter which one you get as long as you can tune it. ;)

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by tomjasz » Jan 24 2016 5:30pm

tomjasz wrote:Anyone have a motor handy to scale the motor shaft for a fellow user?
Anyone?
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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TorEddy   100 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by TorEddy » Jan 24 2016 6:10pm

lantice13 wrote:
TorEddy wrote:Me don't want big and bulky controllers.. me like Grin Phaserunner...
Something needs to be done with those e-bike controllers. So ugly, and hard to fit on a bike.
Small, waterproof controller to tuck away someplace, makes a clean looking e-bike. And of cource a usb interface.. this is 2016 goddamnit!
LOL well how much is that phase runner compared to a regular ol 12fet infineon controller? Phaserunner runs at $295 and around $95 for a 12 fet infineon or cheaper which ever Chinese vendor you get it from. Hiding your wiring and getting controllers mounted and hidden in a nice manner is part any custom DIY build. if you need it to look OEM bike and cant figure out how to properly integrate your wiring harness and controller then get a bafang BBS-HD with an internal controller.
I've tried the CA v3 throttle tamer on a high powered dual motor MAC geared hubs. for some reason the throttle have this delay which softens up your throttle ramp up but also delays the throttle ramp down.... so if you throttle down, there is a delay with cutting the throttle. I don't know if I want to deal with all of that while I'm on my own bike. But anyway, bottom line is, you need a programmable controller for these kind of mid drives, it doesn't matter which one you get as long as you can tune it. ;)
I guess most people prefer the OEM look, and thats probably why the Bafang's are so popular.
I agree some of the fun with a DIY build, is the challenge to make it neat and tidy, and that's also why i appreciate that someone is making a smaller and nicer controller. It being waterproof and small, makes it possible to install on the inside or outside of the bottom bracket sheets of the Cyclone.
The BBSHD is a great contender, especially if the controller could be reprogrammed to say 40 amps.. And who can argue with the stealthiness of an integrated controller.
My trouble is making it fit on a AM / Enduro frame like below (or similar downtube), without the motor pointing straight down.
Image

Thats where the Cyclone 3000w comes to play, with the possibility to adjust the motor-to-BB length with custom sheets.
If you pay top $ for a nice bike, motor and batteries, the 200$ extra for a quality controller isn't gonna break the budget.

I agree you need a programmable controller without having to use a CA3 to adjust the motor response.
When it comes to wires on a e-bike, less is more!

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Warren » Jan 24 2016 6:18pm

tomjasz,

Putting a scale on a large picture found on the internet, and scaling the shaft end from the center-to-center distance of a 1/2" chain, I am going to guess 25 mm.

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lantice13   100 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by lantice13 » Jan 24 2016 7:38pm

TorEddy wrote:
lantice13 wrote:
TorEddy wrote:Me don't want big and bulky controllers.. me like Grin Phaserunner...
Something needs to be done with those e-bike controllers. So ugly, and hard to fit on a bike.
Small, waterproof controller to tuck away someplace, makes a clean looking e-bike. And of cource a usb interface.. this is 2016 goddamnit!
LOL well how much is that phase runner compared to a regular ol 12fet infineon controller? Phaserunner runs at $295 and around $95 for a 12 fet infineon or cheaper which ever Chinese vendor you get it from. Hiding your wiring and getting controllers mounted and hidden in a nice manner is part any custom DIY build. if you need it to look OEM bike and cant figure out how to properly integrate your wiring harness and controller then get a bafang BBS-HD with an internal controller.
I've tried the CA v3 throttle tamer on a high powered dual motor MAC geared hubs. for some reason the throttle have this delay which softens up your throttle ramp up but also delays the throttle ramp down.... so if you throttle down, there is a delay with cutting the throttle. I don't know if I want to deal with all of that while I'm on my own bike. But anyway, bottom line is, you need a programmable controller for these kind of mid drives, it doesn't matter which one you get as long as you can tune it. ;)
I guess most people prefer the OEM look, and thats probably why the Bafang's are so popular.
I agree some of the fun with a DIY build, is the challenge to make it neat and tidy, and that's also why i appreciate that someone is making a smaller and nicer controller. It being waterproof and small, makes it possible to install on the inside or outside of the bottom bracket sheets of the Cyclone.
The BBSHD is a great contender, especially if the controller could be reprogrammed to say 40 amps.. And who can argue with the stealthiness of an integrated controller.
My trouble is making it fit on a AM / Enduro frame like below (or similar downtube), without the motor pointing straight down.
Image

Thats where the Cyclone 3000w comes to play, with the possibility to adjust the motor-to-BB length with custom sheets.
If you pay top $ for a nice bike, motor and batteries, the 200$ extra for a quality controller isn't gonna break the budget.

I agree you need a programmable controller without having to use a CA3 to adjust the motor response.
When it comes to wires on a e-bike, less is more!
that bike frame.... you sure it uses the old English threaded bb standard coz that's the only thing that a Cyclone, GNG and others like it can use. if this is a press fit , the bafang bbs02-hd might be the only one that can work. but someone mentioned before that some bikes with a bb30 has a narrower middle section that the bb shaft of the bbs02-hd might not be able to pass through. better check your clearances. ;)

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by DingusMcGee » Jan 24 2016 8:08pm

tomjasz,

0.787 inches diameter measuring inside of small motor pulley. Probablely 20 mm.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by markz » Jan 24 2016 8:40pm

I must have missed Cyclones options, I never really liked their cheesy amateur website design. Not bad pricing now that I am looking at it. Including the batteries, the shipping is outrageous. $550 for their highest powered setup! OUCH!!!!
Cyclone HIGH POWERED motor setups.jpg

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by lantice13 » Jan 24 2016 10:02pm

markz wrote:I must have missed Cyclones options, I never really liked their cheesy amateur website design. Not bad pricing now that I am looking at it. Including the batteries, the shipping is outrageous. $550 for their highest powered setup! OUCH!!!!
Cyclone HIGH POWERED motor setups.jpg
If you live within North America, just buy it from Lunacycles http://lunacycle.com/motors/mid-drive-k ... planetary/

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by markz » Jan 25 2016 12:15am

If you live within North America, just buy it from Lunacycles http://lunacycle.com/motors/mid-drive-k ... planetary/
I didnt realize Luna sold 8kw and 10kw setups. 120Acont. :twisted:
WOW.jpg
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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Torg » Jan 25 2016 3:37am

The Lunacycle kit comes with a 72v rated controller but they don't sell a 72v battery. I was wondering if it can handle a 18s lipo fully charged :lol: (75,6v)

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by turbo1889 » Jan 25 2016 11:19am

And if you just want the motor and its planetary gear box alone and are going to get/make your own mounting plates and use your own choice of controller then Sick Bike Parts is selling just the motor head alone and they are a U.S. domestic seller.

http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/pr ... cts_id=224

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emaayan   100 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by emaayan » Jan 25 2016 11:25am

turbo1889 wrote:And if you just want the motor and its planetary gear box alone and are going to get/make your own mounting plates and use your own choice of controller then Sick Bike Parts is selling just the motor head alone and they are a U.S. domestic seller.

http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/pr ... cts_id=224
THEY HAVEN'T USED A BANANA!!!

regarding the gearbox, do you happen to know about anyone who sells similar sized gearboxes? or even parts for them ?(aside from sdp) i'm curious about building my own..
Trek 7.7 fx, 22.5" frame, 38x700c,10 gears.
ecospeed mid drive 1300 watt engine, max speed 45 kph.
battery1: 48v 14 ah, frame mounted battery, range 40km.
battery2(spare) 52v 10ah frame mounted bag, range, 30km.

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Leebolectric   1 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Leebolectric » Jan 25 2016 11:32am

I've heard of metal replacement gears for the planetary...
...anyone find a good source for metal gears?
...good source for replacement nylon gears?

Best possible grease?

I don't care about noise, I want max durability and power transfer.
2015 Intense Tracer275 with Tangent Ascent inside triangle https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75045
2010 Turner 5Spot with BaffangHD https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75569
2009 KHS Velvet 6" with BafangHD (see above thread^)
2015 SantaCruz Bantam with TEMPORARY Cyclone https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=76131

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by turbo1889 » Jan 25 2016 11:55am

@ emaayan

I don't get the banana reference.

As to the gearbox question, I have looked for a long time for a good source of gearboxes myself and have yet to find anything that provided the level of quality, selection, and reasonable price I want without having to order them in truck load quantities. "Battle Robot" gearboxes are about as good as it gets for just buying a single gearbox or two at a half way reasonable price unless you get lucky on ebay or have your own machine shop. The "Battle Robot" gearboxes are sold at various places around the net and are strong and compact but unfortunately are a little high priced in my opinion considering they are not fully bearing supported and at least the planets if not the main shafts as well run in bushings rather then true bearings.



@ Leebolectric

As to what grease to use, here is some reading that might be educational along those lines:

http://electric-fatbike.com/2015/11/22/ ... the-bbs02/

Not directly about the drive under discussion but very relevant what he has to say about not all greases being safe for use with plastic gears.

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