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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Posted: Oct 12 2019 3:18pm
by Tommm
joshuahuang wrote:
Oct 12 2019 2:18pm
Anyone know how to fix the throttle? I have the stock non bluetooth 40a controller and the throttle response is terrible because it's speed controlled not current controlled. Do I need a new throttle or is there another solution? It's manageable on road but not for steeper technical trails.
If you have the leads for the bluetooth module you can buy one on ali for $20.
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/329627 ... 11340635
Or you can try to connect/disconnect the "soft start" leads. They are two grey wires and they plug into each other.

Tbh only way I got it just right was "fast start 8, adjust accelerator curve on" and a top of the line domino throttle ($70).

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Posted: Oct 12 2019 4:02pm
by robocam
What throttle are you using? Maybe give it some time to get used to?
joshuahuang wrote:
Oct 12 2019 2:18pm
Anyone know how to fix the throttle? I have the stock non bluetooth 40a controller and the throttle response is terrible because it's speed controlled not current controlled. Do I need a new throttle or is there another solution? It's manageable on road but not for steeper technical trails.

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Posted: Oct 12 2019 7:36pm
by markz
I already have a threaded arm for the freewheel, but I dont want to wreck that one too :oops:
I will first try some epoxy weld with the threads on the pedal shimmed for a tight fit.
Helicoil I doubt would work but might be worth a try, if the price is right.
Then I might have to get someone with a tig/gas to weld the hole in, drill it and tap it.


Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Posted: Oct 14 2019 11:26am
by joshuahuang
robocam wrote:
Oct 12 2019 4:02pm
What throttle are you using? Maybe give it some time to get used to?

nah I've had it for a couple months now. I had no trouble adjusting to other throttles. It jerks really hard on startup no matter how slow i go

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Posted: Oct 14 2019 11:29am
by joshuahuang
Tommm wrote:
Oct 12 2019 3:18pm
joshuahuang wrote:
Oct 12 2019 2:18pm
Anyone know how to fix the throttle? I have the stock non bluetooth 40a controller and the throttle response is terrible because it's speed controlled not current controlled. Do I need a new throttle or is there another solution? It's manageable on road but not for steeper technical trails.
If you have the leads for the bluetooth module you can buy one on ali for $20.
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/329627 ... 11340635
Or you can try to connect/disconnect the "soft start" leads. They are two grey wires and they plug into each other.

Tbh only way I got it just right was "fast start 8, adjust accelerator curve on" and a top of the line domino throttle ($70).
woah i didn't know stock one had bluetooth. ill see if i have the plug on the controller when i get home

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Posted: Oct 17 2019 5:23pm
by endrew
Couple of questions regarding controllers:
1) Is there a good current based alternative to stock controller? stock controller controls speed rather than current.
2) When I try to set overspeed in stock controller, I can only set it up to 15. If I try to set it higher, It goes down to 15 after I hit "save". Why is that?
3) What is "low speed ratio"?

Thanks!

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Posted: Oct 18 2019 2:37am
by Tommm
endrew wrote:
Oct 17 2019 5:23pm
Couple of questions regarding controllers:
1) Is there a good current based alternative to stock controller? stock controller controls speed rather than current.
2) When I try to set overspeed in stock controller, I can only set it up to 15. If I try to set it higher, It goes down to 15 after I hit "save". Why is that?
3) What is "low speed ratio"?

Thanks!

This menu sets the speed of the "high speed mode" and "low speed mode" of the 3 speed switch. If you are in the middle speed(default state without a 3 speed switch connected), it doesn't change anything. It doesn't change max power, it is just an rpm limit. The high speed mode is just field weakening.
15% is a lot, on 72v with the 15% setting you can run into the controller's rpm limit and experience some skipping, mostly without a load.

Reguarding the throttle, the best usability is with the "adjust accelerator curve" turned on. Slow start off, and fast start on 6 to 8 depending on taste.

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Posted: Oct 18 2019 2:50am
by minimum
endrew wrote:
Oct 17 2019 5:23pm
1) Is there a good current based alternative to stock controller? stock controller controls speed rather than current.
Nucular.

12F if you're bold and do like changing your bicycle drivetrain components.
6F is good enough to destroy weaker links and get maintenance cycle low :D

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Posted: Oct 18 2019 7:55am
by robocam
What controller is this? Would you happen to have a link? What software is this screenshot from?
endrew wrote:
Oct 17 2019 5:23pm
Couple of questions regarding controllers:
1) Is there a good current based alternative to stock controller? stock controller controls speed rather than current.
2) When I try to set overspeed in stock controller, I can only set it up to 15. If I try to set it higher, It goes down to 15 after I hit "save". Why is that?
3) What is "low speed ratio"?

Thanks!

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Posted: Oct 18 2019 10:56am
by endrew
minimum wrote:
Oct 18 2019 2:50am
endrew wrote:
Oct 17 2019 5:23pm
1) Is there a good current based alternative to stock controller? stock controller controls speed rather than current.
Nucular.

12F if you're bold and do like changing your bicycle drivetrain components.
6F is good enough to destroy weaker links and get maintenance cycle low :D
Do you have experience pairing it with the cyclone? Seems to be pre-order

http://nucular.tech/#rec101723173

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Posted: Oct 18 2019 10:57am
by endrew
robocam wrote:
Oct 18 2019 7:55am
What controller is this? Would you happen to have a link? What software is this screenshot from?
endrew wrote:
Oct 17 2019 5:23pm
Couple of questions regarding controllers:
1) Is there a good current based alternative to stock controller? stock controller controls speed rather than current.
2) When I try to set overspeed in stock controller, I can only set it up to 15. If I try to set it higher, It goes down to 15 after I hit "save". Why is that?
3) What is "low speed ratio"?

Thanks!
Its the stock bluetooth controller and its app. They have it at Luna and Sick bike parts.

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Posted: Oct 18 2019 11:08am
by minimum
endrew wrote:
Oct 18 2019 10:56am
Do you have experience pairing it with the cyclone?
I wouldn't have suggested it otherwise.

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Posted: Oct 18 2019 11:09am
by endrew
Tommm wrote:
Oct 18 2019 2:37am
endrew wrote:
Oct 17 2019 5:23pm
Couple of questions regarding controllers:
1) Is there a good current based alternative to stock controller? stock controller controls speed rather than current.
2) When I try to set overspeed in stock controller, I can only set it up to 15. If I try to set it higher, It goes down to 15 after I hit "save". Why is that?
3) What is "low speed ratio"?

Thanks!

This menu sets the speed of the "high speed mode" and "low speed mode" of the 3 speed switch. If you are in the middle speed(default state without a 3 speed switch connected), it doesn't change anything. It doesn't change max power, it is just an rpm limit. The high speed mode is just field weakening.
15% is a lot, on 72v with the 15% setting you can run into the controller's rpm limit and experience some skipping, mostly without a load.

Reguarding the throttle, the best usability is with the "adjust accelerator curve" turned on. Slow start off, and fast start on 6 to 8 depending on taste.
Thanks!
What does "Fast start" do?

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Posted: Oct 18 2019 11:21am
by robocam
Thanks. That’s cool. I have 2 Cyclones from Luna Cycle but I guess it was before they had Bluetooth stock. Any idea when it started coming with a Bluetooth controller? Is it still 40A?
endrew wrote:
Oct 18 2019 10:57am
Its the stock bluetooth controller and its app. They have it at Luna and Sick bike parts.

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Posted: Oct 18 2019 4:30pm
by Tommm
robocam wrote:
Oct 18 2019 11:21am
Thanks. That’s cool. I have 2 Cyclones from Luna Cycle but I guess it was before they had Bluetooth stock. Any idea when it started coming with a Bluetooth controller? Is it still 40A?
endrew wrote:
Oct 18 2019 10:57am
Its the stock bluetooth controller and its app. They have it at Luna and Sick bike parts.
It is an option.

You can upgrade yours like so:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&p=1503540#p1503540

endrew wrote:
Oct 18 2019 11:09am
Thanks!
What does "Fast start" do?
It will try to accelerate faster to the requested rpm given by the throttle. More responsive. You decrease the jerkiness by doing "adjust accelerator curve" this option makes the first 25% of the rev range commanded by ~40% of your throttle movement range so you still get fine control.

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Posted: Oct 18 2019 4:45pm
by robocam
Do the older controllers have a place for this to plug into? I know mine don’t because I removed every wire I didn’t use :lol:
Tommm wrote:
Oct 18 2019 4:30pm
It is an option.

You can upgrade yours like so:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&p=1503540#p1503540

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Posted: Oct 19 2019 4:22am
by Tommm
robocam wrote:
Oct 18 2019 4:45pm
Do the older controllers have a place for this to plug into? I know mine don’t because I removed every wire I didn’t use :lol:
Tommm wrote:
Oct 18 2019 4:30pm
It is an option.

You can upgrade yours like so:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&p=1503540#p1503540
It is 4/5 wires and it says bluetooth. If you removed it, you removed it.

You will need to look for internal solder points if you are interested.

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Posted: Oct 19 2019 10:27am
by robocam
Here are the wires I removed. Looks like the old controller did not have Bluetooth capability. So they all ship with Bluetooth capability now?
IMG_5236-20percent size.jpg
IMG_5236-20percent size.jpg (147.47 KiB) Viewed 2065 times
Tommm wrote:
Oct 19 2019 4:22am
It is 4/5 wires and it says bluetooth. If you removed it, you removed it.

You will need to look for internal solder points if you are interested.

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Posted: Oct 19 2019 1:09pm
by Tommm
robocam wrote:
Oct 19 2019 10:27am
Here are the wires I removed. Looks like the old controller did not have Bluetooth capability. So they all ship with Bluetooth capability now?

IMG_5236-20percent size.jpg
Tommm wrote:
Oct 19 2019 4:22am
It is 4/5 wires and it says bluetooth. If you removed it, you removed it.

You will need to look for internal solder points if you are interested.
No, there is a 40a silver non bt model and a 60a black bt model. They are yuyang king controllers btw.

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Posted: Oct 21 2019 7:52am
by endrew
Anyone paired a Cyclone 3000 stock controller with a Cycle Analyst and an external shunt?

I am seeing strange behavior. The ESC will not pull the same currents as it will without the CA, even though the throttle voltage is higher with the CA.

Is it possible the throttle signal is current rather than voltage?

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Posted: Oct 21 2019 10:11am
by robocam
I have, and I've experienced nothing unusual.
endrew wrote:
Oct 21 2019 7:52am
Anyone paired a Cyclone 3000 stock controller with a Cycle Analyst and an external shunt?

I am seeing strange behavior. The ESC will not pull the same currents as it will without the CA, even though the throttle voltage is higher with the CA.

Is it possible the throttle signal is current rather than voltage?

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Posted: Oct 21 2019 11:05am
by endrew
robocam wrote:
Oct 21 2019 10:11am
I have, and I've experienced nothing unusual.
endrew wrote:
Oct 21 2019 7:52am
Anyone paired a Cyclone 3000 stock controller with a Cycle Analyst and an external shunt?

I am seeing strange behavior. The ESC will not pull the same currents as it will without the CA, even though the throttle voltage is higher with the CA.

Is it possible the throttle signal is current rather than voltage?
How much current do you draw? as I said, up to 40 Amps, it worked fine for me

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Posted: Oct 21 2019 11:21am
by robocam
The stock current of about 40A. I don't understand what you're saying. Now you're saying it works fine up to 40A but that's the stock current. Are you talking about the 60A controller? How are you measuring the current without the CA? Or are you just directly plugging in the throttle but still measuring the current with the CA? Measure the throttle output voltage of the CA.
endrew wrote:
Oct 21 2019 11:05am
How much current do you draw? as I said, up to 40 Amps, it worked fine for me

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Posted: Oct 21 2019 11:58am
by endrew
Oh, I got the Bluetooth ESC with my kit and I have added some solder to the internal shunt so it goes up to 80 amps. I want the CA for this reason - to be able to limit the current in a flexible way.

Anyway this was solved by disconnecting the gnd wire in the throttle connection from external shunt to the ESC, and leaving only the signal wire. I have no idea why.

Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Posted: Oct 21 2019 1:00pm
by robocam
Oh, ok that makes sense. I did this to my other Cyclone 3000 controller too (soldered the shunt and let the CA limit the current). On mine I only have one wire going to the throttle input on the controller. Glad you figured it out.
endrew wrote:
Oct 21 2019 11:58am
Oh, I got the Bluetooth ESC with my kit and I have added some solder to the internal shunt so it goes up to 80 amps. I want the CA for this reason - to be able to limit the current in a flexible way.

Anyway this was solved by disconnecting the gnd wire in the throttle connection from external shunt to the ESC, and leaving only the signal wire. I have no idea why.