new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

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Grantmac   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Grantmac » May 04 2019 6:50pm

When I built my new motor mounts I sized them exactly to be tight with a 410 sized chain. I've heard half links can't take as much power.

aCeMadMod   1 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by aCeMadMod » May 04 2019 7:39pm

Look like #25h chain you can use with cyclone 3000 watt power Fine


Good luck Killing your motor with 150 Amp.

My test were done under water and sill motor boiled the water in a very short time
The wire can't take the amps


I am upgrade to new cyclone 4800 watt motor.
I get 10/ percent better More range.

Better fill. Less wates

Yes half link do get longer. From tox I use in a short time.

SwampDonkey   100 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by SwampDonkey » May 04 2019 8:08pm

aCeMadMod wrote:
May 04 2019 7:39pm
Look like #25h chain you can use with cyclone 3000 watt power Fine


Good luck Killing your motor with 150 Amp.

My test were done under water and sill motor boiled the water in a very short time
The wire can't take the amps


I am upgrade to new cyclone 4800 watt motor.
I get 10/ percent better More range.

Better fill. Less wates

Yes half link do get longer. From tox I use in a short time.
Im at around 85A Im thinking, and using a 4000W motor. Im skeptical about the "4800W" having superior copper fill and internals, besides steel gears. I hope Im wrong and we have a legit "super-cyclone" I can upgrade to. I jut rode 5 miles this afternoon at 35-45 mph and the motor was just warm, not hot. Weather was cool and beautiful though, so im sure that helped. New chain held up perfectly!
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lukashanak   1 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by lukashanak » May 14 2019 1:27am

Tommm wrote:
May 03 2019 4:38am

How many amps and phase amps have you set it to? Do you know the temp of the motor while riding and what does the sensor measure, coil temp?
How fast does it get to 100C or whatever your limit is if you hammer it?

You can just change the gearbox grease, it made it quieter for me, mobiltemp shc 100, designed for electric motors with high heat.
Thanks for tip. Its much quieter now.
Cyclone 4kW mid drive + Nucular 12F + 18s lipo = 9kW of fun :twisted: :twisted:

lukashanak   1 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by lukashanak » May 14 2019 1:41am

I take some inspiration by aCeMadMod with cooling. Tested yesterday. I drive my trail from work to home about 6km. Most uphill. Ride hardest as I can and i cant overheat it. :-)
Used https://www.arctic.ac/eu_en/f8.html (left side rotation fan) which I have unused at home on motor shaft and made some holes to airflow.

So I changed battery amps from 130 to 150A and field weakening from 40 to 50A.

And I can confirm, that newer cyclone motors have 110°C temp fuse. I never trigered it, but its here. :-)
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Cyclone 4kW mid drive + Nucular 12F + 18s lipo = 9kW of fun :twisted: :twisted:

Tommm   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Tommm » May 14 2019 5:05am

lukashanak wrote:
May 14 2019 1:41am
And I can confirm, that newer cyclone motors have 110°C temp fuse. I never trigered it, but its here. :-)
How do you spot the fuse?

Did it get stronger 130 to 150 or just hotter? :lol:

lukashanak   1 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by lukashanak » May 14 2019 6:19am

Tommm wrote:
May 14 2019 5:05am
L

How do you spot the fuse?

Did it get stronger 130 to 150 or just hotter? :lol:
I think both. :-) If I use high revs, no problem with heat now.
You can see fuse on left side by the winding on my photo. White thing, 110°C on it.
Cyclone 4kW mid drive + Nucular 12F + 18s lipo = 9kW of fun :twisted: :twisted:

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by district9prawn » May 14 2019 8:04am

lukashanak wrote:
May 14 2019 6:19am
You can see fuse on left side by the winding on my photo. White thing, 110°C on it.
On your motor was the temp sensor just hanging loose like that originally or did you pull it out to show us? Should really embed it in the windings.
Neu 8057 6kW left hand drive hardtail with 18 fet Vesc: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=96754

Tommm   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Tommm » May 14 2019 9:34am

district9prawn wrote:
May 14 2019 8:04am
lukashanak wrote:
May 14 2019 6:19am
You can see fuse on left side by the winding on my photo. White thing, 110°C on it.
On your motor was the temp sensor just hanging loose like that originally or did you pull it out to show us? Should really embed it in the windings.
Haha, it might be the usual cyclone way: good idea, lacking execution.

matt912836   10 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by matt912836 » May 31 2019 7:13am

Hoping i could get some help diagnosing a problem with my 3000w cyclone motor after a small crash. I've had this thing as reliable as can be for a a lot longer than I expected for now. Once I got all the chain and crank alignment issues sorted, I've been running full 72v 40a power with no problem. 48t front chainring to a 28t rear so big gears only, at 72v makes this thing literally a wheelie machine, even at speed. Motor gets warm at best after trying to be as hard as possible on the motor, pulling non stop wheelies from dead stops, even with long full throttle runs and field weakening on max, I could never get the motor to get even warm enough for concern.

Until now.

While replacing my rear wheel axle from a snapped qr to a solid 3/8 axle, I must have gotten a tiny bit of grease on my brake rotor. I noticed this when I took the bike back out and immediately went to wheelie and tried to feather my rear brake to drop back, instead the bike slowly fell backwards and looped out. Absolutely no external physical damage to the motor or drive train at all, mount or chain line, nothing bent at all and everything looks fine and lines up just like before, atleast externally. I was able to get back on and ride just fine and nothing externally changed.

Now, the motor itself seems to be slightly inefficient and feels like it wont spin as fast as easily, top speed definitely feels a little off, it seems to sag the battery more on hard pulls and field weakening definitely seems to be taking more effort from the battery. Yet nothing sounds different at all, theres no crunching noise like a plastic gear broke, no grinding or rubbing sounds like something broke inside, nothing sounds different at all. But something is definitely wrong now as the motor definitely gets almost hot on full power. It gets warmer than it did before on full power even if I dial the power back. And for the simple fact I feel like I lost all ability to do long controlled wheelies as that instant snap from rpm-based torque seems to be almost gone :x :(

Ideas?

Tommm   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Tommm » May 31 2019 7:47am

matt912836 wrote:
May 31 2019 7:13am
Hoping i could get some help diagnosing a problem with my 3000w cyclone motor after a small crash. I've had this thing as reliable as can be for a a lot longer than I expected for now. Once I got all the chain and crank alignment issues sorted, I've been running full 72v 40a power with no problem. 48t front chainring to a 28t rear so big gears only, at 72v makes this thing literally a wheelie machine, even at speed. Motor gets warm at best after trying to be as hard as possible on the motor, pulling non stop wheelies from dead stops, even with long full throttle runs and field weakening on max, I could never get the motor to get even warm enough for concern.

Until now.

While replacing my rear wheel axle from a snapped qr to a solid 3/8 axle, I must have gotten a tiny bit of grease on my brake rotor. I noticed this when I took the bike back out and immediately went to wheelie and tried to feather my rear brake to drop back, instead the bike slowly fell backwards and looped out. Absolutely no external physical damage to the motor or drive train at all, mount or chain line, nothing bent at all and everything looks fine and lines up just like before, atleast externally. I was able to get back on and ride just fine and nothing externally changed.

Now, the motor itself seems to be slightly inefficient and feels like it wont spin as fast as easily, top speed definitely feels a little off, it seems to sag the battery more on hard pulls and field weakening definitely seems to be taking more effort from the battery. Yet nothing sounds different at all, theres no crunching noise like a plastic gear broke, no grinding or rubbing sounds like something broke inside, nothing sounds different at all. But something is definitely wrong now as the motor definitely gets almost hot on full power. It gets warmer than it did before on full power even if I dial the power back. And for the simple fact I feel like I lost all ability to do long controlled wheelies as that instant snap from rpm-based torque seems to be almost gone :x :(

Ideas?
Take it apart then. See if the shaft moves as easily as it did before. Same with the freewheel.
Last edited by Tommm on May 31 2019 2:14pm, edited 1 time in total.

flat tire   1 MW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by flat tire » May 31 2019 12:10pm

matt912836 wrote:
May 31 2019 7:13am
Ideas?
The motor is made for bottom dollar by people who don't care that much and you slightly damaged some insulation / started to connect a winding to the stator or another winding when the internals were shocked / moved around slightly upon crashing. Happens all the time in these cheap chinese motors when ridden hard or crashed.

The damage is probably terminal and the only solution is to rewind the motor. Preferably with a decent magnet wire and properly isolated stator next time. Then you need to epoxy the windings so they can't move around.

matt912836   10 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by matt912836 » May 31 2019 4:07pm

flat tire wrote:
May 31 2019 12:10pm
matt912836 wrote:
May 31 2019 7:13am
Ideas?
The motor is made for bottom dollar by people who don't care that much and you slightly damaged some insulation / started to connect a winding to the stator or another winding when the internals were shocked / moved around slightly upon crashing. Happens all the time in these cheap chinese motors when ridden hard or crashed.

The damage is probably terminal and the only solution is to rewind the motor. Preferably with a decent magnet wire and properly isolated stator next time. Then you need to epoxy the windings so they can't move around.
Tommm wrote:
May 31 2019 7:47am

Take it apart then. See if the shaft moves as easily as it did before. Same with the freewheel.
I was really hoping it was just a bearing gone bad or something, but upon further inspection, the top bolt on the drive side the motor holding the motor onto the mount happens to have sheered off right at the beginning of the threads. I will have to use a left handed drill bit to get the threaded piece out the motor, hopefully this was the original problem but honestly not sure as I'm only noticing this now after continuing to ride the motor hard (wheelies and all) and almost having the motor chain snap on me. And I dont think I could have rode it that hard again with this bolt being loose this whole time. Now i see why the chain almost snapped, because the motor is now moving in the mount. Only thing is it definitely wasnt doing this immediately after the crash, it's only now the motor is clear its loose.

Anyone know the size of the bolts that are on the freewheel side of the motor? Its atleast an inch and a half before the threads actually begin.
Optimized-20190531_172131.jpg
Also, if this doesnt fix the problem, wheres the easiest and cheapest place to source a replacement motor? I see some replies about it being $99 for a new one shipped..

Tommm   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Tommm » May 31 2019 4:25pm

matt912836 wrote:
May 31 2019 4:07pm
flat tire wrote:
May 31 2019 12:10pm
matt912836 wrote:
May 31 2019 7:13am
Ideas?
The motor is made for bottom dollar by people who don't care that much and you slightly damaged some insulation / started to connect a winding to the stator or another winding when the internals were shocked / moved around slightly upon crashing. Happens all the time in these cheap chinese motors when ridden hard or crashed.

The damage is probably terminal and the only solution is to rewind the motor. Preferably with a decent magnet wire and properly isolated stator next time. Then you need to epoxy the windings so they can't move around.
Tommm wrote:
May 31 2019 7:47am

Take it apart then. See if the shaft moves as easily as it did before. Same with the freewheel.
I was really hoping it was just a bearing gone bad or something, but upon further inspection, the top bolt on the drive side the motor holding the motor onto the mount happens to have sheered off right at the beginning of the threads. I will have to use a left handed drill bit to get the threaded piece out the motor, hopefully this was the original problem but honestly not sure as I'm only noticing this now after continuing to ride the motor hard (wheelies and all) and almost having the motor chain snap on me. Now i see why the chain almost snapped, because the motor is now moving in the mount. Only thing is it definitely wasnt doing this immediately after the crash, it's only now the motor is clear its loose.

Anyone know the size of the bolts that are on the freewheel side of the motor? Its atleast an inch and a half before the threads actually begin.

Also, if this doesnt fix the problem, wheres the easiest and cheapest place to source a replacement motor? I see some replies about it being $99 for a new one shipped..
You see $99 because the cyclone warranty works that way, you pay for shipping only.

The motor has 2 parts, gearbox and motor core. You don't need to get the whole thing if you stripped something. You got any pictures?

matt912836   10 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by matt912836 » Jun 03 2019 10:40am

Tommm wrote:
May 31 2019 4:25pm
matt912836 wrote:
May 31 2019 4:07pm
flat tire wrote:
May 31 2019 12:10pm
matt912836 wrote:
May 31 2019 7:13am
Ideas?
The motor is made for bottom dollar by people who don't care that much and you slightly damaged some insulation / started to connect a winding to the stator or another winding when the internals were shocked / moved around slightly upon crashing. Happens all the time in these cheap chinese motors when ridden hard or crashed.

The damage is probably terminal and the only solution is to rewind the motor. Preferably with a decent magnet wire and properly isolated stator next time. Then you need to epoxy the windings so they can't move around.
Tommm wrote:
May 31 2019 7:47am

Take it apart then. See if the shaft moves as easily as it did before. Same with the freewheel.
I was really hoping it was just a bearing gone bad or something, but upon further inspection, the top bolt on the drive side the motor holding the motor onto the mount happens to have sheered off right at the beginning of the threads. I will have to use a left handed drill bit to get the threaded piece out the motor, hopefully this was the original problem but honestly not sure as I'm only noticing this now after continuing to ride the motor hard (wheelies and all) and almost having the motor chain snap on me. Now i see why the chain almost snapped, because the motor is now moving in the mount. Only thing is it definitely wasnt doing this immediately after the crash, it's only now the motor is clear its loose.

Anyone know the size of the bolts that are on the freewheel side of the motor? Its atleast an inch and a half before the threads actually begin.

Also, if this doesnt fix the problem, wheres the easiest and cheapest place to source a replacement motor? I see some replies about it being $99 for a new one shipped..
You see $99 because the cyclone warranty works that way, you pay for shipping only.

The motor has 2 parts, gearbox and motor core. You don't need to get the whole thing if you stripped something. You got any pictures?
Looks like fixing the broken bolt seems to have solved my problem, but now I've run into another one, one I've had before...

The bolts that hold the chain rings together dont seem to be strong enough to hold up to heavy 3000w abuse. This is the second time I've had a chainring bolt break on me and almost destroy my whole drivetrain in the process. First I had problems with them loosening, loctite fixed that. Now they just seem to not be strong enough and definitely doesnt help that they're hollow even though they are steel.

Anyone have an alternative for a nice solid bolt and nut to fasten the chainrings together? In the meantime I'm going to head to home depot to see what bolt will best fit the diameter of the lip on the chainring bolts.

aCeMadMod   1 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by aCeMadMod » Jun 03 2019 10:55am

Hi yes you will not find stock chian ring bolt good for powerful middrive
You a m8 countsink bolt and back half of the stock bolt
It been a long time you may to retap back half

Use 2 drills the fasTers way i know .

Good luck

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by sjrides » Jun 12 2019 5:24pm

Does the "Battery current limit" value basically control how many amps are drawn from the battery? I have mine set to 75% with a 48v battery, which gives me 30amp * 48v = 1440w. If I switch to a 60v battery, and adjust the Battery Current Limit to 60%, that should give me the same 1440w, right? 24amp * 60v = 1440w

Does anyone know the difference between the Battery Current Limit and the Phase Current Limit?

Tommm   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Tommm » Jun 13 2019 10:56am

sjrides wrote:
Jun 12 2019 5:24pm
Does the "Battery current limit" value basically control how many amps are drawn from the battery? I have mine set to 75% with a 48v battery, which gives me 30amp * 48v = 1440w. If I switch to a 60v battery, and adjust the Battery Current Limit to 60%, that should give me the same 1440w, right? 24amp * 60v = 1440w

Does anyone know the difference between the Battery Current Limit and the Phase Current Limit?
It will give you the same watts but it will feel different. Lower torque but higher maximum rpm.

Phase current limit is something completely different. It shows the current going to the motor. It is usually 1.5 to 2.3x of the battery current. It is enough that you know that with more phase current you will accelerate harder in the begining, even with the same battery current setting.

sjrides   1 mW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by sjrides » Jun 13 2019 5:50pm

Tommm wrote:
Jun 13 2019 10:56am
It will give you the same watts but it will feel different. Lower torque but higher maximum rpm.
ah, thanks. I was actually hoping it would be the opposite, same rpm but more torque. guess not! So in general, amps have to do with torque and volts with rpm?

Tommm   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Tommm » Jun 13 2019 6:32pm

sjrides wrote:
Jun 13 2019 5:50pm
Tommm wrote:
Jun 13 2019 10:56am
It will give you the same watts but it will feel different. Lower torque but higher maximum rpm.
ah, thanks. I was actually hoping it would be the opposite, same rpm but more torque. guess not! So in general, amps have to do with torque and volts with rpm?
Yes, but on a mid drive you can just shift down and it will be the same.

sjrides   1 mW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by sjrides » Jun 14 2019 2:50am

this is on a single speed system. it's all good, i'll probably just not adjust the amps unless I need to get more range since torque is more important than top speed

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by adorjanos » Jun 21 2019 10:19am


TOLM   1 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by TOLM » Jun 22 2019 11:59pm

Image

Need some help pls

I bought the new cyclone kit aka gng 2019 cyclone.

I only hve the controller and a basic throttle without a key or something to turn the controller on or off. If i understand correctly, the lonely red wire that connects directly to the positive wire from the battery is the wire that switches the controller on. Do i understand correctly that all i need it is to cut that red wire somewhere and install some sort of a switch to make sure my controller is not always turned on? (Like so that i do not need to disconnect the battery all the time?)

Thanks

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Tommm » Jun 23 2019 12:42am

TOLM wrote:
Jun 22 2019 11:59pm
Image

Need some help pls

I bought the new cyclone kit aka gng 2019 cyclone.

I only hve the controller and a basic throttle without a key or something to turn the controller on or off. If i understand correctly, the lonely red wire that connects directly to the positive wire from the battery is the wire that switches the controller on. Do i understand correctly that all i need it is to cut that red wire somewhere and install some sort of a switch to make sure my controller is not always turned on? (Like so that i do not need to disconnect the battery all the time?)

Thanks
Yes, the thin red wire that goes to battery and usually has a label "power switch" on it.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by TOLM » Jun 23 2019 12:47am

Tommm wrote:
Jun 23 2019 12:42am
TOLM wrote:
Jun 22 2019 11:59pm
Image

Need some help pls

I bought the new cyclone kit aka gng 2019 cyclone.

I only hve the controller and a basic throttle without a key or something to turn the controller on or off. If i understand correctly, the lonely red wire that connects directly to the positive wire from the battery is the wire that switches the controller on. Do i understand correctly that all i need it is to cut that red wire somewhere and install some sort of a switch to make sure my controller is not always turned on? (Like so that i do not need to disconnect the battery all the time?)

Thanks
Yes, the thin red wire that goes to battery and usually has a label "power switch" on it.
Thanks Tommm

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