BIG BLOCK alternative Motor

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
1KW   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 341
Joined: Jul 24 2013 10:23am

Re: BIG BLOCK GNG alternative Motor

Post by 1KW » Jun 30 2015 1:54pm

bzhwindtalker wrote:Actually I was talking about the previous bike with the BB located direct drive GNG motor and pegs!
Sorry bad photoy :
Image
Anyway to do a setup like this and keep the pedals ?

Run chain on other side to a disc brake sprocket?

User avatar
John Bozi   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1861
Joined: Apr 09 2013 1:46am
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Contact:

Re: BIG BLOCK alternative Motor

Post by John Bozi » Jul 01 2015 5:38pm

I know it was mentioned some pages ago, but can anyone confirm this motor runs just as well in reverse?

I am contemplating running it via the disc brake side.

I was wondering if there is something off the shelf for the 420 sprockets too

this looks cool but for 410 http://shop.jakebike.com/9-hole-offset- ... p-8898.htm

Image

or anyone out there do custom sprockets or adapters for 420 that anyone knows?

thanks

User avatar
Sean9002   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 345
Joined: Jun 16 2013 7:57am
Location: Australia

Re: BIG BLOCK alternative Motor

Post by Sean9002 » Jul 01 2015 6:01pm

John Bozi wrote:I know it was mentioned some pages ago, but can anyone confirm this motor runs just as well in reverse?

I am contemplating running it via the disc brake side.

I was wondering if there is something off the shelf for the 420 sprockets too

this looks cool but for 410 http://shop.jakebike.com/9-hole-offset- ... p-8898.htm

Image

or anyone out there do custom sprockets or adapters for 420 that anyone knows?

thanks
Ive been measuring up the oset sprocket adapter to fit 420 sprockets (219 is stock) that have the same bolt/bore config. Theres a few options. none of which are freewheeling
OSET 20+ - Custom frame and swingarm, Motorims - 66V
Ruff Cycles Porucho - MXUS 3000w - whitewalls - Gloss black/Pearl blue/copper leaf - custom tanks - bobber saddle
Giant Glory 00 - Clyte X5404 - Hubsinks - 18FET Sinewave
Fuji Nevada S - MXUS 35mm- Hubsinks - 12FET Sinewave
39inch longboard Dual 50mm, 12s lipo

User avatar
crossbreak   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2879
Joined: Aug 02 2011 11:20am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: BIG BLOCK alternative Motor

Post by crossbreak » Jul 01 2015 10:09pm

John Bozi wrote:I know it was mentioned some pages ago, but can anyone confirm this motor runs just as well in reverse?
looks like timing is neutral. so yes

User avatar
nutnspecial   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3809
Joined: Mar 03 2015 10:19pm
Location: PA

Re: BIG BLOCK alternative Motor

Post by nutnspecial » Jul 02 2015 3:09am

I never ended up attempting the proper phase/hall combo because I couldn't find a way to fit the motor for leftside drive.
Even with something like a 68/135mm bb and mtn cranks, the back of the motor would hit the bike chainline. Leftside drive would work better with a narrower motor, wider bb, or placement of bht away from chainring/chainline ( above, in front). +1, it does seem to be neutrally timed though.

Why use #40 chain? 219 or #35 is more appropriate, (one might be able to get away with tiny 8mm chain even) and there's no shortage of sprockets?

If people can work out 2 rightside chainlines, my new hub should be of use. Dual freewheel for 150-155 d/o. Finishing it up soon. All off the shelf parts with one tiny machined/printed adaptor. Pretty easy diy

User avatar
John Bozi   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1861
Joined: Apr 09 2013 1:46am
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Contact:

Re: BIG BLOCK alternative Motor

Post by John Bozi » Jul 02 2015 4:43pm

Thanks for reminding me of the width issue I had buried ages ago... I feel like I am going around in circles for solutions.

The above solution would work but handling goes down that higher up it gets places...

I was looking at 420 because that's the stock front sprocket,

Is there a list of front sprockets that adapt to this shaft without custom work? I'd even try a strong SS ebike 410 chain now that I found that biscuit adapter.

User avatar
nutnspecial   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3809
Joined: Mar 03 2015 10:19pm
Location: PA

Re: BIG BLOCK alternative Motor

Post by nutnspecial » Jul 03 2015 10:29am

That's the only catch with the BHT, I haven't found ANY sprockets that fit either diameter of the shaft.
Also that #40 8t sprocket is best suited for low rpms, like 36-48v. Otherwise imo that's a far too small diameter for that chain and 2500rpms. They also have an 8mm 14t as an option, and could be worth a shot. 8mm looks like it will hold up to the power, but won't last as long as 219 or #35.

It may be fairly simple to tweak a sprocket and use the existing keyway on the small part of shaft (allen wrenches make good custom keys), or if you have access to a welder, just tweak a .625 id sprocket of your choice and tack it on the larger inner section. The latter is working fine for me, and it will only take a couple extra minutes to change it someday.
For tweaking all things metal, a variable speed anglegrinder with abrasive and a diamond wheel is great, but my favorite diy tool is a nice carbide rotary burr.
I have a big one for the die grinder/drill, but I believe they make nice ones for the dremel too. The key is keep everything cool with oil. Cuts bout everything. Also worked great for the aluminum blank sprocket I used for the rear. Enlarged the center and then drilled the 5 holes for the white hd.

As far as I know, there is no perfect off the shelf drivetrain, which would be nice- but if you source the right setup, it takes minimal work and doesn't cost much. I see a 'special' rear sprockt selling for +60$

35 chain 10ft 20$
35 11t 5/8id 10$
35 blank 55t alu 33$

User avatar
riba2233   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1848
Joined: Jun 30 2013 10:23am
Location: Croatia

Re: BIG BLOCK alternative Motor

Post by riba2233 » Jul 03 2015 12:49pm

Just take it to the local machine guy, it's pointless to search for sprocket/shaft combinations for custom stuff like this. I just buy standard industrial sprocket, I can chose pitch, number of teeth etc., and then take in on lathe/mill.
My electric moped: http://www.evalbum.com/4966

My electric car: http://www.evalbum.com/5364

User avatar
bzhwindtalker   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1770
Joined: Dec 01 2008 1:03pm
Location: Lyon, France

Re: BIG BLOCK alternative Motor

Post by bzhwindtalker » Jul 04 2015 5:11am

Received some GNG style big blocks
Image
Image

Trying to secure next orders, PM me if you want one! we will try to work on a #420 or #219 sprocket solution too.

speedpower99   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 29
Joined: May 05 2014 8:29pm
Location: Vancouver Canada

Re: BIG BLOCK alternative Motor

Post by speedpower99 » Jul 05 2015 12:38am

A slotted axle. :? The GNG big block has built in gear and if you cut the gear the axle still long enough.
How are you going to fit a sprocket int that axle?


DrKraut   1 W

1 W
Posts: 63
Joined: Jun 29 2013 12:00pm
Location: alemania

Re: BIG BLOCK alternative Motor

Post by DrKraut » Jul 05 2015 7:08am

Interesting.
I don't own the motor right now but can you fit sprockets like these:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/221583978712

User avatar
nutnspecial   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3809
Joined: Mar 03 2015 10:19pm
Location: PA

Re: BIG BLOCK alternative Motor

Post by nutnspecial » Jul 05 2015 7:16am

What is the weight of these new motors?
Really like the sideplate mounts.

ps, DRkraut, I doubt it?

DrKraut   1 W

1 W
Posts: 63
Joined: Jun 29 2013 12:00pm
Location: alemania

Re: BIG BLOCK alternative Motor

Post by DrKraut » Jul 05 2015 8:31am

So were can i get cheap sprockets for 420 chain ?

User avatar
bzhwindtalker   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1770
Joined: Dec 01 2008 1:03pm
Location: Lyon, France

Re: BIG BLOCK alternative Motor

Post by bzhwindtalker » Jul 07 2015 11:53am

I have 4 gng style big block motors for sale located in France, 130€+ship.
Pm me for details!

User avatar
standfast   100 W

100 W
Posts: 124
Joined: Apr 25 2014 8:29pm
Location: Los Lunas, New Mexico

Re: BIG BLOCK alternative Motor

Post by standfast » Jul 08 2015 3:54pm

BHZ, what is the difference between this motor and the pedestal style mount? Are they the same internally? Do you have a pic of the other side? How about a width to the major faces and end of output shaft? Or even better CAD? I may be able to use one of these. Not a big fan of the sprocket attachment though. What keeps the sprocket on laterally? grub screw?

User avatar
k2nguru   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 25
Joined: Jun 22 2014 7:50am
Location: Tallinn

Re: BIG BLOCK alternative Motor

Post by k2nguru » Jul 17 2015 2:27am

Im in for one motor. If sprocket option would be included, that would be even more awesome :P

glenn0010   100 W

100 W
Posts: 118
Joined: Jul 01 2015 3:56pm
Location: Mgarr, Malta

Re: BIG BLOCK alternative Motor

Post by glenn0010 » Oct 31 2015 4:30am

Hey Guys,

I have bought the BHT 1kW 48V motor. Can any of you guys give me the wiring diagram of the hall effect sensors? Also what are the number of poles of this motor? I am asking this since I am making my own controller for it.

Best Regards, Glenn

User avatar
crossbreak   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2879
Joined: Aug 02 2011 11:20am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: BIG BLOCK alternative Motor

Post by crossbreak » Oct 31 2015 9:47am

if you are able to built an own controller u should really have no problem in determining the right wiring by yourself :lol:

glenn0010   100 W

100 W
Posts: 118
Joined: Jul 01 2015 3:56pm
Location: Mgarr, Malta

Re: BIG BLOCK alternative Motor

Post by glenn0010 » Oct 31 2015 11:30am

crossbreak wrote:if you are able to built an own controller u should really have no problem in determining the right wiring by yourself :lol:
Haha yes I'm in the process of building it, I'm almost ready to order the PCBS.. I was just saying that to save some time. With the hall effect took a quick look and know I know the wiring, however the poles I don't know I really don't want to open the motor up.

User avatar
crossbreak   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2879
Joined: Aug 02 2011 11:20am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: BIG BLOCK alternative Motor

Post by crossbreak » Oct 31 2015 11:48am

really hard to tell without connecting an oscilloscope to both a hall and between two phases. There is no common scheme for assigning hall states to specific phase commutation states.

All we know is that this motor is directly compatible to the scheme that Kelly controllers use, i think it then turns in CW direction if i remember right

glenn0010   100 W

100 W
Posts: 118
Joined: Jul 01 2015 3:56pm
Location: Mgarr, Malta

Re: BIG BLOCK alternative Motor

Post by glenn0010 » Oct 31 2015 6:40pm

crossbreak wrote:really hard to tell without connecting an oscilloscope to both a hall and between two phases. There is no common scheme for assigning hall states to specific phase commutation states.

All we know is that this motor is directly compatible to the scheme that Kelly controllers use, i think it then turns in CW direction if i remember right
Aren't these motors bi directional? All you need to do is to switch 2 phases of the motor together to get a change of direction. Assuming of course that you have made the appropriate changes in the code of the controller to take into account for this change correct?

Best Regards Glenn


glenn0010   100 W

100 W
Posts: 118
Joined: Jul 01 2015 3:56pm
Location: Mgarr, Malta

Re: BIG BLOCK alternative Motor

Post by glenn0010 » Nov 01 2015 2:43pm

That is of course the case. I've been doing some digging around and it seems the BHT motor is a 6 pole motor can anyone confirm this? Also does anyone know what the hall effect connector is called to buy the female end to make it look nice and tidy

Best Regards Glenn

User avatar
Skalabala   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 416
Joined: Feb 05 2014 2:59pm
Location: South Africa

Re: BIG BLOCK alternative Motor

Post by Skalabala » Nov 02 2015 2:40am

glenn0010 wrote:That is of course the case. I've been doing some digging around and it seems the BHT motor is a 6 pole motor can anyone confirm this? Also does anyone know what the hall effect connector is called to buy the female end to make it look nice and tidy

Best Regards Glenn
I think it is 8 pole? Just pop open the front cover, its easy.
Image
Boosted cars are like hot women. A little edgy, every guy wants one, some guys can't handle them, and if you throw a little alcohol in them they'll rock your world! Born a Jap raised as a boer!

Post Reply