my first build, now with a shady m1 pack

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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johnrobholmes   1.21 GW

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Re: my first build, belt drive stretch cruiser

Post by johnrobholmes » Mar 11 2010 9:06am

Can't believe I missed this thread! What a nice build, all around! I wonder what else you have in store for us?

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Miles   100 GW

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Re: belt drive stretch cruiser NEW PARTS -YAY-

Post by Miles » Mar 11 2010 9:28am

gestalt wrote: Now the only thing holding me back from putting the frame together in its final form is to figure out my belt drive system as I cant place the motor mount until I know how much space there needs to be between the axle and the motor shaft for the belt to fit. If anyone has any advice for getting my hands on a pulley system that can give me a 5:1 ratio and handle a shit ton of torque please let me know
If it's over 15Nm at the motor shaft, it will need to be an 8mm pitch synchro belt, I think.

comradegerry   100 W

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Re: my first build, belt drive stretch cruiser

Post by comradegerry » Mar 11 2010 10:37am

Gates carbon Drives has spme interesting bike products, one snag being that the belts need to be one of four lenghs from what I can work out and they have no join, making getting them inside the frame a little tricky. Great looking bike, best of luck with the rest of the build. The price list should be accurate, I only recieved it today and am still trying to work out if I can bolt their rear sprockets to an ENO freewheel as part of a drive system.
_Gates CD pricelist VK 091201.pdf
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JEB   100 W

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Re: my first build, belt drive stretch cruiser

Post by JEB » Mar 11 2010 11:57am

Hi gestalt; It looks as if it is going to be a great bike- One of my bikes (a tour easy) I added a rear brake like yours (1995 ninga) with out changing the hydrolic system I added a straight pull adapter to use the wire cable of a regular brake bike setup, it works great, only requires a 1 finger pull to engage/stop.

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gestalt   10 kW

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Re: my first build, belt drive stretch cruiser

Post by gestalt » Mar 31 2010 7:52pm

been getting some work done lately, had both setbacks and steps forward. I've ditched the steel ring as a motor mount, it was just too heavy and thick to weld onto the frame. so what I want to do now is have the motor mounted to a plate that spans four steel tubes perpendicular to the frame. I think the result will be both lighter and more elegant. Image
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then I realized I had set the tubes too far back on the frame, the motor would not be able to be mounted unless I wanted to add almost another foot to the allready stretched frame. so with some burlier tubing I went at it again.

Image
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now the motor can be nicely tucked in there behind the seatpost. I'm going to use the 3/8" thick one inch tubing that I was going to build the springer fork out of to build out the new chain stays but what's got me held back right now is the steel plate to make the motor mount out of....argh!

After many setbacks with building that springer fork I came accross a decent double crown down hill fork in the MIT bicycle graveyard. It was missing it's top crown. So I busted it apart so It can be mounted into some super sweet motorcycle crowns that a buddy gave me. I took great care to remove all hardware from the fork tubes.

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one problem though, the crowns are meant for much bigger diameter fork tubes. so here was my opportunity to try my hand at the metal lathe for the first time. I turned some ali down and hollowed it out, cut out four rings and cut them into a C shape and wala!!! custom spacers to make the fork tubes fit.
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as soon as I turn that steer tube from the original bike setup It should be fairly easy to mount the fork to the frame. I'll have to weld on some disk mounts but that should be fairly easy. If anyone in the NE has some steel plate they could stand to get rid of let me know if you want to work something out.

/progress
//finnaly!
- be seeing you
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gestalt   10 kW

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Re: my first build, belt drive stretch cruiser

Post by gestalt » Mar 31 2010 8:29pm

thanks Kim! the saying aroung the MITers shop is "make it work" which I have been adopting more and more lately. You know, I was hanging about the shop one night and there was a fellow there who was part of the moped gang they got going on. He checks out my project and he says "hey, have you heard of an australian builder who goes by the name of aussiejester?". Dude, you've got some fame. I think he might know of you through either youtube or some other forum though.
- be seeing you
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gestalt   10 kW

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Re: my first build, now chain drive stretch cruiser...I thin

Post by gestalt » Mar 31 2010 9:51pm

Oh, and another thing. I'm pretty sure I'm going chain drive as that is something I have the ability to make happen with the funds I have. Unless someone has a way to get a 5:1 ratio cog and pulley for around $100 that can handle the torque this motor is going to put out.
- be seeing you
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AussieJester   100 GW

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Re: my first build, belt drive stretch cruiser

Post by AussieJester » Mar 31 2010 10:07pm

gestalt wrote: "hey, have you heard of an australian builder who goes by the name of aussiejester?". Dude, you've got some fame.
HAHA cool...i am a bit of a slut i do get around a bit :mrgreen:

Checkout some go kart suppliers for larger size heavy duty pulley setups if your keen to try that way, i have a go kart rear
here its VERY beefy would stand up to your motor well i think...Failing that they will also have chain setups heavy dt size that
would be suitable, should get out of it under 100 for cogs at least chain might be a bit pricey?

Best of luck

KiM

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gestalt   10 kW

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Re: my first build, now chain drive stretch cruiser...I thin

Post by gestalt » Mar 31 2010 11:23pm

I found this one
http://www.bicycle-engines.com/tooth-pully-p-334.html

I also found some 5mm 100tooth ali pulley stock on ebay, but I don't need that much and would be hard pressed to find a use for the remainder
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 602_263622

but here are the specs on how much torque my motor concievably will put out.
5:1 reduction = 50mph, max torque@wheel approx 75Nm, a forward force of around 23Kg (approx 51lbs)

do you think 5mm will cut it? someone was telling me I should use 14mm pitch.
- be seeing you
Image

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enoob   1 kW

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Re: my first build, now chain drive stretch cruiser...I thin

Post by enoob » Apr 02 2010 12:11am

gestalt wrote:
do you think 5mm will cut it? someone was telling me I should use 14mm pitch.
Miles wrote: If it's over 15Nm at the motor shaft, it will need to be an 8mm pitch synchro belt, I think.
nice work man.

loving the motorbike crowns, you may want to consider relief cutting those shim/spacers though to ensure all your clamping force is getting directed to the fork rather than compressing the shim.

cant wait to see how this golden motor does for ya. very similar to what im doing with my stocker but more power. shall be fun to watch
M.E.N.S ex pres and charter member.

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gestalt   10 kW

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Re: my first build, now chain drive stretch cruiser...I thin

Post by gestalt » Apr 02 2010 12:35am

what do you mean by relief cuts? The spacer is in the a "C" shape, and I made the gap about 5/16", the compression is pretty damn solid but you cant see the cut in the spacer in the pictures I took. I really can't wait to see what the performance is like in comparison to those mars brushless units, did you ever get yours opened up for pictures?
- be seeing you
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enoob   1 kW

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Re: my first build, now chain drive stretch cruiser...I thin

Post by enoob » Apr 02 2010 12:41am

gestalt wrote:what do you mean by relief cuts? The spacer is in the a "C" shape, and I made the gap about 5/16", the compression is pretty damn solid but you cant see the cut in the spacer in the pictures I took. I really can't wait to see what the performance is like in comparison to those mars brushless units, did you ever get yours opened up for pictures?
c shape is what i meant . beauty

have yet to take it to the next step opening the one i have . soon as i have another in hand or have at least ridden the bike ill be more apt to push that task.

your motor is rated amlost double what this one is so it should be fun to see how these work on a "bicycle" :lol:
M.E.N.S ex pres and charter member.

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gestalt   10 kW

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Re: my first build, now chain drive stretch cruiser...I thin

Post by gestalt » Apr 16 2010 10:49am

my computer has been out of action for a while now and I'm waiting on some deal extreme parts to come in which takes forever from china. Anyways, I was wondering if there was anyone out there who would be willing to go to http://www.gates.com and use thier site to find out what pulley and cogs they would have for me. The calculator on the site is too unwieldy for my iPhone which is my only internets these days. I will be riding my rickshaw for the next ten days strait for the red socks home stay in addition to my two other jobs so when I have a day off in about twoo weeks I should have all the money I need to buy the drive system and 48v of cell-man 20ah! If anyone would be kind enough to find out that gates drive info for me I would be in their debt.
gestalt wrote: but here are the specs on how much torque my motor concievably will put out.
5:1 reduction = 50mph, max torque@wheel approx 75Nm, a forward force of around 23Kg (approx 51lbs)

do you think 5mm will cut it? someone was telling me I should use 14mm pitch.
- be seeing you
Image

comradegerry   100 W

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Re: my first build, now chain drive stretch cruiser...I thin

Post by comradegerry » Apr 17 2010 2:05am

Very cool looking bike, hope the info below is of use for you. Look forward to seeing how the belts work for you as I am keen to go that route myself.

Good luck, Gerard
_Gates CD pricelist VK 091201.pdf
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forbikemaker_1254387638.pdf
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forbikemaker_1251480796.pdf
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gestalt   10 kW

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Re: my first build, now chain drive stretch cruiser...I thin

Post by gestalt » Apr 19 2010 9:08pm

comradegerry,

thanks for those, but I think they are more for bicycle i.e. pedal power torque. though I wonder what kind of torque the gates carbon drive belts can handle, you would need a gear reduction but maybe a small outrunner could be used with it.

workathon update, after four strait red socks games I have about $350 saved up and now I go back to working my waiting job before I go to ride for the games for the next four nights. honestly I don't know how I'm even posting this right now I'm so wiped. but that means I'm almost halfway to having my cells paid for and on track.

/progress!

//clinical exhaustion!
- be seeing you
Image

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enoob   1 kW

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Re: my first build, now chain drive stretch cruiser...I thin

Post by enoob » Apr 19 2010 10:37pm

gestalt wrote: /progress!

//clinical exhaustion!
lol. im starting to think those two go hand in hand with custom ebike building .
M.E.N.S ex pres and charter member.

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gestalt   10 kW

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Re: my first build, now chain drive stretch cruiser...I thin

Post by gestalt » Apr 24 2010 10:57pm

$476 together after getting hit with some bills, called out of todays game cause I needed a day off after two weeks. one more game should get me to six hundred, will have to wait a week till the next ten game home stand to get the rest. whadayall think, should I go with an assembled pack from ol cell-man or save about a bill and try and do it myself? I think there would be a high probability of me frocking it up and having to buy more cells. might be a better idea to do my pack assembly learning on the cheaper lipo packs that I want to use for my next project, the electric wheelman/bushpig thing.
- be seeing you
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gestalt   10 kW

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Re: my first build, now chain drive stretch cruiser...I thin

Post by gestalt » Apr 24 2010 11:15pm

oh geez, I just checked and cell-man is out! I really had my heart set on using those prismatics. Maybe I'll have to use lipo for now and upgrade later. how much do you think it will cost for a lipo pack that can handle 300a bursts at 48v?
- be seeing you
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johnrobholmes   1.21 GW

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Re: my first build, now chain drive stretch cruiser...I thin

Post by johnrobholmes » Apr 25 2010 11:03am

About $200 if the cells were in stock at HC. $400 for proper range. Plus shipping.

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gestalt   10 kW

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Re: my first build, now chain drive stretch cruiser...I thin

Post by gestalt » Apr 25 2010 8:21pm

up to $650 now!

Hey thanks JRH, what packs should I be looking for? My lipo knowlege needs some beefing up, but I suppose I can do that while the packs are in the mail right. I want to have at least a twenty mile range, is that the $400 option, like a 20 ah pack? I will start ordering tommorow if possible, some cellog8's up in there as well.
- be seeing you
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gestalt   10 kW

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Re: my first build, now chain drive stretch cruiser...I thin

Post by gestalt » Apr 29 2010 11:51pm

Okay, beating my brain up with the belt drive issues again, in addition to trying to figure out how to charge and balance lipo properly. aussiejester has a pretty snazzy method for wiring his pack up, seems to have pretty bulletproof connections too. I'll be depositing my paycheck and my rickshaw winnings tomorrow and will probably be jumping off the lipo cliff sometime in eastcoast pm so if any of you guys have some final advice, cautions or directions now is the time to shout 'em.

also I read in some machinist forum about this company http://www.hmmanufacturing.com/index.htm that they have some good deals on pulley stock and since my setup will need the pulley to mount to either a freewheel thread or six hole disk mount I will need to do that myself anyways. makes sense to work from stock instead of trying to get a pulley designed to mount to something else work on my bicycle wheel. then some waterjet in some lightning shaped lightening holes to appease the lightening god of down under. One problem is that I cant seem to figure out what the minimum tooth count would be for a drive cog using the 8mm pitch belt and how wide would the belt be, or what would be the best belt width for finding a wide range of belts so that getting the right length will be easier.
- be seeing you
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Miles   100 GW

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Re: my first build, now chain drive stretch cruiser...I thin

Post by Miles » Apr 30 2010 2:15am

22t is the smallest recommended for Gates PowerGrip belts and the smallest size you'll find stocked. I've had 16t pulleys made. 14t is probably the absolute limit, and the smallest you can get pulley stock for, I think. HTD and GT are the same tooth profile for 8mm pitch. You can get the standard lengths of belt cut to any width you like.............. To find the smallest pulley that can handle the torque you have to do the calculations or use one of the programs that does it for you, or look at the tables in the literature, such as the HTD bible.

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gestalt   10 kW

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Re: my first build, now chain drive stretch cruiser...I thin

Post by gestalt » Apr 30 2010 10:05pm

CURSES!!!
hobbycity had the packs I needed in stock yesterday and after depositing my $ in my bank account today I find them sold out :? I wonder how often HC gets new inventory in.
Anyone have a 48v lipo pack they want to sell?
- be seeing you
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bzhwindtalker   1 MW

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Re: my first build, now chain drive stretch cruiser...I thin

Post by bzhwindtalker » May 01 2010 5:58am

I think cell-man have some 15ah left!

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