Interesting alternative to hobbyking/astro motors - hacker motors..

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neptronix   100 GW

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Interesting alternative to hobbyking/astro motors - hacker motors..

Post by neptronix » May 24 2019 8:06pm

I've been trolling the net for something to pair with my 20 inch wheeled aerodynamic beauty..
Have been calling around, asking around, emailing around.. and i'm still narrowing down my choices.. but i found a motor that is not often mentioned on here..

A60-18L V4 14 pole ( pictured on the right )
hackermotors.png
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https://hackermotorusa.com/shop/hacker- ... or-149-kv/

This particular model is built in China, so it's cheaper than this company's German made motors. $259 USD.
Looks like something hobbyking cloned long ago.. :P

The motor weighs 1035g, so about 2lbs.

Now, according to their calculator, on 12S, the motor is at 93.6% efficiency with a 3kw load @ 6500rpm, shedding only 200w of heat, which is stunning and probably manageable
On 10S, we're at 93.3% efficiency at 2.2kw @ 5400rpm, shedding about 170w of heat.

200w of heat is likely manageable with some cooling mods.
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As far as i know, these motors have 0.2mm laminations and are 12 pole motors.

Obviously you will need a controller capable of high speed.. a standard ebike controller will not do. Many ebike oriented controllers max out at 60,000 eRPM, so unfortunately this motor is right on the border..
5400rpm x 12 = 64800 eRPM on 10S.
6500rpm x 12 = 76800 eRPM on 12S.

Grin tech's page says they spun an RC Motor up to 72,000 eRPM on the phaserunner, so you may be able to squeak by with a phaserunner or similar ASI controller on 10S.. no guarantees..

VESC v6 is said to go up to 140,000 eRPM so you're good there. Powervelocity is saying they're going to make a 12FET VESC, so there should be one powerful enough to drive these motors..
There are also some kellys that go up to 100,000 eRPM.. though i am not a fan of kellys..
Jeti ESCs are said to handle these speeds as well; not sure how reliable they are, but they do come from hacker.
Surely there are other controllers i am not thinking of.

So yeah.. these motors seem to slot right between the godly astro motors and the questionable quality but cheap hobbyking motors. I figured i'd point these out.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

district9prawn   100 W

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Re: Interesting alternative to hobbyking/astro motors - hacker motors..

Post by district9prawn » May 24 2019 8:47pm

They look like nice motors but yikes the price! I'm a bit confused about whether the pole count is 14 or 28 as the hacker USA site lists 14 and the German site lists 28.

With the rise in popularity of eskate, a similar sized motor with 0.2mm laminations and hall sensors can be purchased from HK or other chinese suppliers for around $100 usd.
Neu 8057 6kW left hand drive hardtail with 18 fet Vesc: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=96754

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Re: Interesting alternative to hobbyking/astro motors - hacker motors..

Post by neptronix » May 24 2019 9:02pm

Yes, the price is high compared to most Chinese sources.
An equivalent motor to this one is an astro, which will run you $200 more.
The motors you're speaking of may have too high of a kv to use our batteries.. no?

The real sweet spot for ebikes is the 50-200k motors. These are motors you can run on 36.. 48.. 60v just like everything else.

What i see all over the market is kV's in the thousands.. high pole counts that make them hard to drive.. must run low voltage, high amps due to the kv.. power claims based on peak power instead of continuous.. reviews talking about shoddy build quality or weaknesses sometimes.. etc..

So i kept on looking because i've been burned by hobbyking and aliexpress and yada yada way too many times.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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Re: Interesting alternative to hobbyking/astro motors - hacker motors..

Post by flat tire » May 24 2019 9:10pm

These motors are expensive enough that you might as well just get an Astro and worry a whole lot less about workmanship and quality. Not to mention the cost of the full system with a decent controller, reduction, etc. Buy cheap buy more than once.

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Re: Interesting alternative to hobbyking/astro motors - hacker motors..

Post by district9prawn » May 24 2019 9:18pm

It seems like eskate has settled on 10-12s so the sensored outrunners are in the 100-200kv range.

I'd agree with flat tire that you may as well go with astro in this price range. And save yourself the hassle of high erpm. Sure faster controllers like the vesc can do 150k erpm but at that point the modulation in foc is essentially 6 step.
Neu 8057 6kW left hand drive hardtail with 18 fet Vesc: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=96754

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Re: Interesting alternative to hobbyking/astro motors - hacker motors..

Post by neptronix » May 25 2019 1:32am

flat tire wrote:
May 24 2019 9:10pm
These motors are expensive enough that you might as well just get an Astro and worry a whole lot less about workmanship and quality. Not to mention the cost of the full system with a decent controller, reduction, etc. Buy cheap buy more than once.
Well, the equivalent of this motor in the astro world is $560, versus this one at $259.
The hacker is 300g lighter.
You pay for a decent part of a FOC controller with the extra $301 you save by buying the hacker motor.
I'll have to look up the company's reputation but they seem pretty legit. Know of any other high end RC motor sellers i should explore?
district9prawn wrote:
May 24 2019 9:18pm
It seems like eskate has settled on 10-12s so the sensored outrunners are in the 100-200kv range.
I was totally unaware of that until now.
When you said cheap $100 motors with 0.2mm lams, were you referring to ones like this?
https://flipsky.net/collections/e-skate ... 90kv-3250w
I do wonder about these motors because it seems like a million different companies sell that motor with a different label. Of course you are not going to see a dyno sheet either, right?

This is the largest ~$100 eskateboard oriented motor i could find, and there seem to be lots of clones of it. It's a bit smaller than the hacker motor.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

district9prawn   100 W

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Re: Interesting alternative to hobbyking/astro motors - hacker motors..

Post by district9prawn » May 25 2019 2:27am

neptronix wrote:
May 25 2019 1:32am
When you said cheap $100 motors with 0.2mm lams, were you referring to ones like this?
https://flipsky.net/collections/e-skate ... 90kv-3250w
Yep those are the ones. Sensored 80100 and 8085 motors are also available from some of the eskate motor suppliers but since there are not many eskate builds using them information is scarce.

Have you looked at neu motors in the USA? I'm using one of their 80mm outrunners in the build in my sig. Worth noting that their naming scheme refers to stator dimensions not the size of the can.
Neu 8057 6kW left hand drive hardtail with 18 fet Vesc: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=96754

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Re: Interesting alternative to hobbyking/astro motors - hacker motors..

Post by neptronix » May 25 2019 9:20pm

Thanks for the link to your build. I love how it got put together and the crazy size reduction.
Are the problems you had with the neu motor pretty typical for the brand, or do you think you got one built on a friday?

The one cool thing about the neumotors is the little planetary gearboxes that can be hooked up to them. But more gear, less efficiency.. i wou

I've seen a lot of 80xx/80xxx motors out there but there's also a lot of ( potential ) garbage.. lamination thickness not mentioned.. efficiency not mentioned.. it's a no buy from me. I Notice that alien power is selling these units also.

Here is a really cool controller i found.. 80A vesc ( 12fet? ) based on the v6.. http://www.trampaboards.com/vesc-6-plus ... 26762.html

Gee, these things are similar to the price per watt of infineon clone controllers.. if the continuous amps really is continuous amps, of course :mrgreen:
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

district9prawn   100 W

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Re: Interesting alternative to hobbyking/astro motors - hacker motors..

Post by district9prawn » May 28 2019 3:30am

neptronix wrote:
May 25 2019 9:20pm
Are the problems you had with the neu motor pretty typical for the brand, or do you think you got one built on a friday?
Neu are pretty well regarded in among the rc crowd. Someone else on this forum had the same balance/vibration problems with an 8057. Neu have not been selling these 8000 motors for long so maybe they aren't aware.

That vesc from Trampa is the official trademarked one. Flipsky have a nice version of their own. https://flipsky.net/products/fs-esc-6-6

The Trampa vesc6 and the a200s have the advantage of using the nice new current sensor from Ti with much better CMRR.
Neu 8057 6kW left hand drive hardtail with 18 fet Vesc: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=96754

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Re: Interesting alternative to hobbyking/astro motors - hacker motors..

Post by neptronix » May 28 2019 1:26pm

Hey man, thanks for your knowledge so far.
I wasn't aware that Trampa was affiliated with Mr. Vedder.

In hunting around, i found the Maytech 8085. It comes in a 90kv flavor, which is great. But there is zero information on it, outside of what the vendor is saying. The specifications are likely a gross exaggeration.

https://maytech.cn/collections/sensored ... 0208321600

I'm not sure if i want to be the test hamster, although it is almost as much of a motor as the Astro 3220.

The Hacker is a 6085. Maytech has a 6880, which is just a bit larger but is said to have lower power.
https://maytech.cn/collections/sensored ... 90-ha-c3-1

I wonder how good the maytech motors are. Although everyone seems to be reselling them under different brand names.

The Astro 3215 is a 8176 and the Astro 3220 is a 8186, for reference.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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Re: Interesting alternative to hobbyking/astro motors - hacker motors..

Post by markz » Feb 02 2020 5:31pm

Hey man, great thread. Any updates?

neptronix wrote:
May 28 2019 1:26pm
.
district9prawn wrote:
May 28 2019 3:30am
.

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Byte   1 kW

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Re: Interesting alternative to hobbyking/astro motors - hacker motors..

Post by Byte » Feb 05 2020 4:24pm

I cannot say anything in particular about that Hacker motor. However, quite a long time ago (5+ years ago) one of my hobbies was playing around with RC-cars. At that time Hacker and also Plettenberg (both German brands) were known for their top notch quality and high efficiency. I owned one Hacker and one Plettenberg motor and they always worked wonderful with a decent amount of power.

I don't know how the quality is today, but I suspect it's still on a very high level.

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