MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

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ridethelightning   1 MW

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by ridethelightning » May 28 2016 9:57pm

madin88 wrote:
Allex wrote: Regarding KV the value is shown in arbitrary units not the actual kv units dont think you need to touch Wire R PHC.
generally, should we set "wire R phc" to ON when using hub motors like MXUS 3k, or leave it off?

it would be great to have a list with optimal settings for commonly used motors.
every single motor from the same series is a bit different, but on balance the settings should be good enough, or do i miss something?
+1!

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by ridethelightning » May 28 2016 10:53pm

Allex wrote:OVS is just overspeed function.
If you are not happy with you top speed you can adjust this. Otherwise leave it on 0 all the time.

Leave it at 0 when doing autodetect or manual tuning.
All this is described in the manual and yes, if your motor overheats(if the temp reading are correct) at 35/80Amps then you have wrong settings. There is no problem with adaptto/mxus combo, just problems in the settings. So you need to post your settings here, without it we are blind and cannot help you further.
Like this:
Image
it would seem that with different hall offset value,(changed by swapping phase wires around) you get a very different corresponding result in autodetect, and different optimum setting in manual tuning for angle corr and ind timing that i know, and possibly for pwr timing also, ie. the settings are interdependent.

so the one size fits all motor settings for given motor type may not apply, rather, for given motor, with given hall offset position, a given set of figures may be optimum, and a single particular hall offset position/setting combo seems get better results regarding smoothness and efficiency.

to summerise, it seems one needs to get a degree in bldc sinewave controller engineering to get the true optimum results, or perhaps us a 2 channel oscilloscope.

we are talkining about SIGNIFICANT values in efficiency here.
i have seen variation in results between settings of ~19wh/km- ~38wh/km , depending on the phase wire combo= hall offset=different settings for same riding conditions.

generally optimum for qs on flat ground will get ~ 24wh/km@40/50kph no headwind, but with certain combo i have seen as low as 19wh/km.

please, someone let me know if they disagree with any of the above :)

RTL

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by madin88 » May 29 2016 5:41am

ridethelightning wrote: it would seem that with different hall offset value,(changed by swapping phase wires around) you get a very different corresponding result in autodetect, and different optimum setting in manual tuning for angle corr and ind timing that i know, and possibly for pwr timing also, ie. the settings are interdependent.

so the one size fits all motor settings for given motor type may not apply, rather, for given motor, with given hall offset position, a given set of figures may be optimum, and a single particular hall offset position/setting combo seems get better results regarding smoothness and efficiency.

thanks for bringing this up. i will take for sure a closer look at that.

what i know so far is that at least i get very similar consumption / motor temperatur if i set PWR_timing and ind_timing to the same, when using identical motors (no matter what hall offset value controller has set after autodetect).

though i can imagine that it could have an effect and i believe you RT, because i know that weird things can crop up when setting up adaptto controller.

or what would be the explanation behind that? It doesn't make any sense..
to summerise, it seems one needs to get a degree in bldc sinewave controller engineering to get the true optimum results, or perhaps us a 2 channel oscilloscope.

we are talkining about SIGNIFICANT values in efficiency here.
i have seen variation in results between settings of ~19wh/km- ~38wh/km , depending on the phase wire combo= hall offset=different settings for same riding conditions.

generally optimum for qs on flat ground will get ~ 24wh/km@40/50kph no headwind, but with certain combo i have seen as low as 19wh/km.

please, someone let me know if they disagree with any of the above :)

RT
You are absolutely right!

i can't tell anything about other, different brand FOC controllers, or how long it takes or tricky it is to set all such up, but it would be nice if this could be fixed with an update.
now, autodetect sometimes works great (values are quite efficienct) and sometimes it even does not finish the progress because motor starts to vibrate and such things..
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macribs   1.21 GW

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by macribs » May 29 2016 6:45am

Maybe a stupid questions, but hey educate me.

In general for a 3 phase BLDC motor, how many wire combos will be the correct one? Is there only one phase wire sequence that will be perfect?
What I mean is, does all other combos come with some side effects, like vibrations, noise, excess heat etc?

Will the use of ie Lyen's Ebike motor/controller hall/phase tester help getting the correct wire combo? I am thinking that Adaptto probably have an option to manual set correct wire combo, and if Lyens magic box already know the correct combo at least people can be certain they got the wires correctly connected so they can start doing the rest of the settings to have the best possible ride.

If one look at todays controllers and all their possible settings it is no wonder people get lost. There are so many possible combinations of settings that we would need an automatic tester brute forcing its way in the settings to find the optimum ones. And then add the uncertainty of the wiring. It just got even more complicated.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by parabellum » May 29 2016 8:08am

macribs wrote:Maybe a stupid questions, but hey educate me.

In general for a 3 phase BLDC motor, how many wire combos will be the correct one? Is there only one phase wire sequence that will be perfect?
What I mean is, does all other combos come with some side effects, like vibrations, noise, excess heat etc?

Will the use of ie Lyen's Ebike motor/controller hall/phase tester help getting the correct wire combo? I am thinking that Adaptto probably have an option to manual set correct wire combo, and if Lyens magic box already know the correct combo at least people can be certain they got the wires correctly connected so they can start doing the rest of the settings to have the best possible ride.

If one look at todays controllers and all their possible settings it is no wonder people get lost. There are so many possible combinations of settings that we would need an automatic tester brute forcing its way in the settings to find the optimum ones. And then add the uncertainty of the wiring. It just got even more complicated.
In perfect world, you would have 3 equal forward and 3 backward combination, but where we live 1 just could be little better than other. :D

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by markz » Jun 01 2016 4:53pm

Whats the smallest rim size anyone has put on a MXUS 3KW motor?

I bought a used 16x1.60 rim and my calculations and ebikes.ca spoke calculator says I can do a 1 or 2 cross pattern without having to resort to a weak radial spoke arrangement. I however found a cheap 14" rim, so it makes me wonder.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by parabellum » Jun 01 2016 9:00pm

markz wrote:Whats the smallest rim size anyone has put on a MXUS 3KW motor?

I bought a used 16x1.60 rim and my calculations and ebikes.ca spoke calculator says I can do a 1 or 2 cross pattern without having to resort to a weak radial spoke arrangement. I however found a cheap 14" rim, so it makes me wonder.
It is not Mxus3000, but Hx35 which is same diameter I believe. Rim is 14x1.8
Image
See the nipple below, I made new hole slightly to the side to be able use most air chucks.
Image
Hope it helps. :)
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Rix   100 GW

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by Rix » Jun 01 2016 9:04pm

markz wrote:Whats the smallest rim size anyone has put on a MXUS 3KW motor?

I bought a used 16x1.60 rim and my calculations and ebikes.ca spoke calculator says I can do a 1 or 2 cross pattern without having to resort to a weak radial spoke arrangement. I however found a cheap 14" rim, so it makes me wonder.
I would say the 16 is it with out going to a radial lace pattern. I don't think you can effectively do 2X with the MXUS and a 16 moto rim. I saw a guy lace 2X with a 17x1.40 to a MXUS, the spokes were more angled and leaned then I would ever accept.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by Rix » Jun 01 2016 9:15pm

parabellum wrote:
markz wrote:Whats the smallest rim size anyone has put on a MXUS 3KW motor?

I bought a used 16x1.60 rim and my calculations and ebikes.ca spoke calculator says I can do a 1 or 2 cross pattern without having to resort to a weak radial spoke arrangement. I however found a cheap 14" rim, so it makes me wonder.
It is not Mxus3000, but Hx35 which is same diameter I believe. Rim is 14x1.8
Image
See the nipple below, I made new hole slightly to the side to be able use most air chucks.
Image
Hope it helps. :)
No way those are 18" , look at my pic. The motor wheel combo on the right is a 54xx laced to an 18, the motor in the center is a 54xx laced to a 17x1.4 rim. The flange diameter on the 54xx is 244mm vs 231m for the H35xx. Based on the extreme spoke angle and 1X pattern, I would say that rim is a 14" rim. I can't even be a 16 as I have seen 16rim laced to cromotors and the spoke angles aren't that extreme.
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parabellum   10 MW

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by parabellum » Jun 01 2016 9:20pm

Rix wrote:No way those are 18" , look at my pic.
parabellum wrote:Rim is 14x1.8
P.S. nice collection BTW :D

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by Rix » Jun 01 2016 9:28pm

parabellum wrote:
Rix wrote:No way those are 18" , look at my pic.
parabellum wrote:Rim is 14x1.8
P.S. nice collection BTW :D
Der!! I my dyslexia kicked in. My bad, I read it wrong. Sorry amigo. BTW, just curious, are you one of the guys in your avatar picture?

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by parabellum » Jun 01 2016 9:38pm

Rix wrote: Der!! I my dyslexia kicked in. My bad, I read it wrong. Sorry amigo. BTW, just curious, are you one of the guys in your avatar picture?
Never mind. Nope, I am not, I like building more then destroying. :) What size spokes did you use in the 18"? Waiting for Mxus 3KW 5T to come in right now.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by Rix » Jun 02 2016 4:16am

parabellum wrote:
Rix wrote: Der!! I my dyslexia kicked in. My bad, I read it wrong. Sorry amigo. BTW, just curious, are you one of the guys in your avatar picture?
Never mind. Nope, I am not, I like building more then destroying. :) What size spokes did you use in the 18"? Waiting for Mxus 3KW 5T to come in right now.
4War,
I used a couple of different sized, I used a 3.6mm spoke with a 18x6.4mm nipple a 3.0mm spoke with 18x6.4mm nipple, a 3mm spoke with a 5.9mmx16 nipple, and a 3.2mm spoke with a 18x6.4mm nipple. For the purpose of arguments, 3mm to 3.2mm spokes are considered 10G spokes by most manufactures I have dealt with, and the 3.6mm is considered an 8g spoke. Thats the spoke I am running on my 5kw Fighter. Got two more builds in process, and one of them is using a MXUS V2 4T motor which I will be throwing around 10kw through with a MAXE controller. BTW, let me know how you like the 5T, I almost went that route instead for the 4T.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by korpin » Jun 03 2016 9:38am

hey allex! wanted to say thanks for your help!...took bike up very steep 2000 ft elevation on a hot day (95 degrees F)...after coming back down from mountain with motor still hot from regen,hit almost 48 MPH using only 35 amps and power setting of only 1.4! AND only used 1/3 of battery after 21 miles! works better than ever!
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by 999zip999 » Jun 04 2016 8:27pm

Two halls popped out ? What's the halls order. I know 1st one green left side, the yellow meddle and blue on the right. Right ? Sitting and looking at outter rim.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by 999zip999 » Jun 04 2016 9:30pm

Just glued them in green, yellow, blue. This is the order looking at the outer rim. Works great ,can smell the burn. A little toasty. Pit some color in your motor.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by markz » Jun 12 2016 7:28pm

I wonder what the power difference is between going from a 26" Crystalyte DH aluminum rim (65kph), to a 16" MC rim (43kph).
The difference between 16" MC rim and 14" MC rim is only 5kph and not much torque difference.
I am very tempted to buy a 14" MC rim as I see one is available in the classifieds. Both new and used.

I looked at the motor simulator. I will stick with my 16" x 1.60 rim and not bother with a 14" rim. There is minimal torque difference.
Last edited by markz on Jun 14 2016 3:34pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by parabellum » Jun 13 2016 11:48am

markz wrote:I wonder what the power difference is between going from a 26" Crystalyte DH aluminum rim (65kph), to a 16" MC rim (43kph).
The difference between 16" MC rim and 14" MC rim is only 5kph and not much torque difference.
I am very tempted to buy a 14" MC rim as I see one is available in the classifieds. Both new and used.
Do not know, but could it be as simple as following?
being 100% 26"
65/43= 151% torque for 16"MC
or
65/38=171% torque for 14"MC
:?:

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by korpin » Jun 13 2016 3:45pm

sold my V2 MXUS to parrabellum on this forum....it was always running hot...got my MXUS V2 from Kenyae motorosports here is what parrabellum said:
parabellum wrote:Nope. I think, stator just did not fit in to the rotor after assembly and they reduced it sanding on band, from how it looks. As result, they exposed lams (that are usually covered by hard non conductive oxide layer)and shorted them all around with metal dust and little metal scratch bridges. It makes lamination work as big chunk of solid metal, that recirculates current created by magnetic field (that is why everyone wet dreams with thinnest possible lamination, less path for current to recirculate and higher working frequency). This motor must have acted as a car with hand brake pulled, eddy current getting higher with speed. I imagine, by certain speed it would overheat just spinning in the air at no load.
They also reduced some wire strands and hall sensors on the band :lol: 1 sensor got so tin, it just split in 2 while I pulled them out.
I got sick yesterday and got 2 days off, how convenient! :) Already did wire upgrade, with some luck will see it spinning till Wednesday.
i made no modifications to motor this is how it came....my V3 works great..i have heard other V2 motors also running hot
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by madin88 » Jun 13 2016 4:39pm

korpin wrote:sold my V2 MXUS to parrabellum on this forum....it was always running hot...got my MXUS V2 from Kenyae motorosports here is what parrabellum said:
parabellum wrote:Nope. I think, stator just did not fit in to the rotor after assembly and they reduced it sanding on band, from how it looks. As result, they exposed lams (that are usually covered by hard non conductive oxide layer)and shorted them all around with metal dust and little metal scratch bridges. It makes lamination work as big chunk of solid metal, that recirculates current created by magnetic field (that is why everyone wet dreams with thinnest possible lamination, less path for current to recirculate and higher working frequency). This motor must have acted as a car with hand brake pulled, eddy current getting higher with speed. I imagine, by certain speed it would overheat just spinning in the air at no load.
They also reduced some wire strands and hall sensors on the band :lol: 1 sensor got so tin, it just split in 2 while I pulled them out.
I got sick yesterday and got 2 days off, how convenient! :) Already did wire upgrade, with some luck will see it spinning till Wednesday.
regarding: "it makes laminations work like a big chunk of solid metal"

is this only a guess, or did you measure and compare the no-load consumption?

I had two V2 motors where the stator did look similar as on that pic (also some grinding marks).
however, the no load consumption on that motors wasn't higher than usually (something around 100-150W at 600-700 RPM on the 4T, laced into a big wheel).

From my experience, when using Adaptto controllers with wrong angle_corr setting, the MXUS and probabaly other motors as well could overheat extremely fast.
The last time i did manual tuning on such motor, i noticed that if i adjust the angle_corr 1-2° below the optimal point (in the "-" direction which means the phase will lag), i suddenly got 1000W or more no load consumtion.
ONLY 1-2°!!!

another reason could be the middle hall sensor:
it often is glued with a twist between the teeth which means the sensitive surface is misaligned. this also could lead to less efficiency.
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by parabellum » Jun 13 2016 5:24pm

Its all my speculations by now.
Miles seems also not very concerned about that.https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 5#p1195020
Shorted lams is bad thing, question remaining is how badly they are shorted.
I can not find the tread, but it was discussed where someone wanted to grind of tooth edges to get thicker magnet wire in one Turnigy 80100. I have also seen stuck wind turbine where official cause was shorted lamination melting some resin inside that got to stator/rotor gap and hardened again.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by markz » Jun 14 2016 3:35pm

Rewinding the motor to a 2.5T from a 4T, what size of controller would I need?

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by macribs » Jun 14 2016 11:09pm

markz wrote:Rewinding the motor to a 2.5T from a 4T.
That would make for a great video/timelaps combo :!:

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by Rix » Jun 15 2016 12:01am

macribs wrote:
markz wrote:Rewinding the motor to a 2.5T from a 4T.
That would make for a great video/timelaps combo :!:
It would still be a long video unless watching at 200X speed.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

Post by markz » Jun 15 2016 1:17pm

Best to wind it into 6 phases wouldnt it?
Then its the placement of the extra 3 hall sensors.
And can use 2 controllers.
Last edited by markz on Jun 19 2016 4:00pm, edited 1 time in total.

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