MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by cwah » Jul 25 2015 9:54am

That's great. It brings lots of clarity now.

Just 1 more point... if I don't have the lcd display it is ilunlikely it will work I suppose? :/
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by teslanv » Jul 25 2015 9:59am

cwah wrote:That's great. It brings lots of clarity now.

Just 1 more point... if I don't have the lcd display it is ilunlikely it will work I suppose? :/
I think it will work without the LCD display, but you won't have any way to adjust the settings.
I am kinda surprised that you got one of these controllers without the accessories. Where did you get it?
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by Rix » Jul 25 2015 10:05am

[quoteThat's all I know, bro][/quote]

Yah, your assistance with photos just laid the basis for a pseudo wiring diagram. Nicely done Tesla NV. Speaking of your avatar name. I drove out to the Gigafactory site. The guards wouldn't allow to pass the entry control point. So I snapped this pic and turned around. I find it rather peculiar that your name is TeslaNV and Tesla's Gigafactory is located between Reno and Fernely in northern Nevada. :wink: :?
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by teslanv » Jul 25 2015 10:15am

Rix wrote:
Speaking of your avatar name. I drove out to the Gigafactory site. The guards wouldn't allow to pass the entry control point. So I snapped this pic and turned around. I find it rather peculiar that your name is TeslaNV and Tesla's Gigafactory is located between Reno and Fernely in northern Nevada. :wink: :?
Ha. Sometimes I wish I lived in Nevada...

Actually my intent on user name was "Tesla Envy", not Tesla Nevada. But I suppose either is now fitting. I would love to take a tour of the Gigafactory. I hope they offer that at some point...
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by cwah » Jul 25 2015 10:49am

I got it from Vampa........ :(

How much would it cost to ship the accessories?
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by Rix » Jul 25 2015 1:19pm

teslanv wrote:
Rix wrote:
Speaking of your avatar name. I drove out to the Gigafactory site. The guards wouldn't allow to pass the entry control point. So I snapped this pic and turned around. I find it rather peculiar that your name is TeslaNV and Tesla's Gigafactory is located between Reno and Fernely in northern Nevada. :wink: :?
Ha. Sometimes I wish I lived in Nevada...

Actually my intent on user name was "Tesla Envy", not Tesla Nevada. But I suppose either is now fitting. I would love to take a tour of the Gigafactory. I hope they offer that at some point...
I hope they do as well. I will be with the first group if they do.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by markz » Jul 25 2015 3:19pm

I opened up my motor, pretty easy once I realized the freewheel needed to be taken off. :oops:

What size of heat shrink do I use for the wires in the shaft?
I will be buying the ptfe teflon 12awg teslanv sells.
Zip Tie trick is all thats needed, and/or maybe the spring to protect wire. Thats all??????????

Also buying the Urathane Diaelectric Varnish, I guess dnum says any varnish is fine for the halls, as the windings are already covered. But I want to do it all correctly so it all lasts a long time. I dont want to open up my motor again. Just spray it all??????????????

Also buying the m5 x 15mm screws for cover plate.

Temp sensor, what one, where do I buy it. Does the V2 already come with one? I bought mine from factory not a group buy. How do I hook it up.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by Rix » Jul 25 2015 4:26pm

markz wrote:I opened up my motor, pretty easy once I realized the freewheel needed to be taken off. :oops:

What size of heat shrink do I use for the wires in the shaft?
I will be buying the ptfe teflon 12awg teslanv sells.
Zip Tie trick is all thats needed, and/or maybe the spring to protect wire. Thats all??????????

Also buying the Urathane Diaelectric Varnish, I guess dnum says any varnish is fine for the halls, as the windings are already covered. But I want to do it all correctly so it all lasts a long time. I dont want to open up my motor again. Just spray it all??????????????

Also buying the m5 x 15mm screws for cover plate.

Temp sensor, what one, where do I buy it. Does the V2 already come with one? I bought mine from factory not a group buy. How do I hook it up.
The temp sensor should be the small black wire exiting parallel to the phase and sensor wires out of the hub. ///edit/// Wait, that's on Crystalytes, I will have to check on my MXUS. while you motor is split, might as well get some SKF 6203RS bearings for it. I can't speak for the stock units as they were replaced by Allex for me at my request. Doc Bass posted some pics a while back of the stuff he did to his MXUS, seems like you got it covered.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by markz » Jul 25 2015 7:05pm

I found the temp sensor.
How much for that bearing?
I reread the improving the mxus 3000 thread.
I will do most of it.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by Rix » Jul 25 2015 11:14pm

markz wrote:I found the temp sensor.
How much for that bearing?
I reread the improving the mxus 3000 thread.
I will do most of it.
Should be less than 15 bucks for both. Maybe 20 if someone stocks them. Worth it for sure.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by Cowardlyduck » Jul 25 2015 11:15pm

Wow - this thread moves fast! Thanks for the replies to those who did. :)
litespeed wrote:I'm sure it wouldn't be a drop in solution for many reasons but mainly because the MXUS is a 45mm motor, not 40. I went to this motor since my 4065 axle gave up after little (500 miles max!) time. What a waste of money that turned out to be. I believe the 4T would be your best bet.
The stator lamination width might be 5mm more, but the overall magnet ring width is about the same...with the MXUS side covers, I think it could actually work...but your right it's probably not the best idea given I would not have the funds to buy another if I botched it up somehow.
After a bit more reading, I think your right...the 4T would be the best fit, mainly because I will also be running it on the Mini-E which is only 6Fet.
Rix wrote:Dang CD, you have more problems with those axles. I know you put a lot of work into your force fan venting motors, why don't you get a custom built axle for it like Hyena had made? 16x10 axle is probably going to be a better option. If you do, you will need to get some different axle torque blocks for your Fighter's swingarm. If you go with the MXUS, you will need to mod your torque blocks to 14mm as well, or see if Stealth will sell you the Bombers torque axle blocks.
I was considering a custom axle...probably one from Tench, but then when trying to remove the axle from my old busted HS4065 yesterday, we only succeeded in bending the axle with the press...and it didn't budge an inch! So I don't hold out much hope of removing the axle from my HS4080 to replace it even if I wanted to. If my attempts at repairing the axle fail, I will probably just sell the modded 4080 as a functional unit with axle problems...at least then I might recover some of the costs/time I put into it.

I actually do have some Bomber torque blocks already. :) Back in 2011 when I first ordered my Fighter I think Stealth just used the same torque blocks for both the Bomber and Fighter. After speaking with John about my initial axle rotation issues back in 2012 he then sent me the updated torque blocks with tighter axle tolerance for the Fighter, stating they were a revised design...basically just a smaller slot. So either way I've got that covered. :)
teslanv wrote:There is myth and then there is reality.
Thanks teslanv. That points me to the 4T as well, so it sounds like that's my best bet should I get the MXUS. It also makes me realise the HS4080 I've currently got would be the best choice also were the axle in better shape. :roll:

Was anyone in the know on a V3 of the motor? If it's coming whats the ETA?

Also did anyone have any comments on reusing the rim/spokes from my HS4065 wheel? I'm fairly confident it would work...it would just be nice to have some confirmation from others.

Cheers
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by markz » Jul 26 2015 3:30am

I always thought teslanv was Nevada, not Envy. I dont think thats going to change.

I do not get teslanv's graph on windings/wheel diameter and the comment about 12fet for 5 and 6T. I lucked out buying the 18fet and 4T V2,
I understand the torque/speed myth.

What are you implying by, getting away with 12fet on a 5T or 6T?
Its a lower Kv (volts per rpm) so the lower 12fet, has a lower optimal voltage?

So the graph is based on efficiency?

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by 9lives » Jul 26 2015 4:35am

Cowardlyduck wrote:I hadn't been following this thread, so just spent a good 4+ hours skipping through it trying to catch up.
It was good to learn all about the difference between motor winding/turn counts and how the myth of lower turns equaling more torque is false. That info should be put up in a separate thread for more people to find IMO.

The main reason I'm interested in the MXUS is because I stripped the axle on my HS4080, which I've recently spent many hours modifying for increased cooling. I'm sick of the ongoing issues I've (and I see others from reading this thread) had with my Crystalyte motors. This is the 4th Crystalyte (2X HS35xx and 2X HS40xx) motor I'm on now and every one of them has had axle issues mainly caused IMO from the small 1/2" axle size.
I'm going to try and get the axle repaired (reduced to 12mm) first before buying a MXUS, but if that fails (which it likely will eventually) the MXUS is the most logical choice for my Fighter.

Anyway, I have few questions I wasn't able to see the answers to...apologies if I skipped over the answers.

1) Is there a V3 of the MXUS coming (already out?)? What are the differences?



2) I plan on using it with my Mini-E (65A) on 12S (45V) LiPo in a 24" rim. From what I can tell the 3T would be best, but I don't need much top speed. Would the better copper fill of the 4T be better for overall higher efficiency given the Adaptto's ability to generate speed with OVS when (occasionally) required and the increased time spent in a higher efficiency zone when at or near 100% PWM?

3) I already have a rim + spokes from a dead HS4065 motor. I notice the diameter of the HS40 spoke flange is only 0.2mm larger than the MXUS, and the inner flange width is 0.5mm bigger on the MXUS. http://www.crystalyte.com/Dimensions_H40%20Series.pdf
Does anyone think I would work for me to reuse the spokes/rim from the HS40 to lace the MXUS?
Alternatively, is the magnet size and pole count for the HS40 and MXUS the same? The dimensions are so close, it looks like I could just drop the MXUS stator into the HS40 magnet ring...or is that a bad idea?

Thanks in advance to anyone who responds.

Cheers
Can confirm your spoke/rim combination should not be a problem. I used the rim and spokes I had for the 4065 for my MXUS and all good.

I am running the 4T MXUS with the Max on 20S so give me a PM if you want a sticky or ride before you pull the pin on the purchase given your close proximity.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by cwah » Jul 26 2015 5:40am

Tesnislav,

I noticed my controller doesn't have the LCD connector:
Image

Would the connector be instead used by the CA connector?

Also, I think I'm going to have a go, and to start obviously I'd need to solder the on-off switch together. Any clue which one that might be?

Thanks
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by teslanv » Jul 26 2015 7:45am

markz wrote:I always thought teslanv was Nevada, not Envy. I dont think thats going to change.

I do not get teslanv's graph on windings/wheel diameter and the comment about 12fet for 5 and 6T. I lucked out buying the 18fet and 4T V2,
I understand the torque/speed myth.

What are you implying by, getting away with 12fet on a 5T or 6T?
Its a lower Kv (volts per rpm) so the lower 12fet, has a lower optimal voltage?

So the graph is based on efficiency?
Yes, the chart is based on efficiency and overheat times.

Higher Kv motors like the 3T have a lower phase resistance and require twice the phase current to produce the same amount of torque as a 6T winding. Because the 3T requires more phase current, a larger, more powerful controlled is needed, compared to a 6T motor.

Conversely, the 6T motors requires twice the voltage to produce the same rpm as the 3T motor.
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by macribs » Jul 26 2015 9:28am

teslanv wrote:
markz wrote:I always thought teslanv was Nevada, not Envy. I dont think thats going to change.

I do not get teslanv's graph on windings/wheel diameter and the comment about 12fet for 5 and 6T. I lucked out buying the 18fet and 4T V2,
I understand the torque/speed myth.

What are you implying by, getting away with 12fet on a 5T or 6T?
Its a lower Kv (volts per rpm) so the lower 12fet, has a lower optimal voltage?

So the graph is based on efficiency?
Yes, the chart is based on efficiency and overheat times.

Higher Kv motors like the 3T have a lower phase resistance and require twice the phase current to produce the same amount of torque as a 6T winding. Because the 3T requires more phase current, a larger, more powerful controlled is needed, compared to a 6T motor.

Conversely, the 6T motors requires twice the voltage to produce the same rpm as the 3T motor.


Teslanv your explanation of Kv was so easy to follow I think this should go in one of the pinned threads. This part is important to understand yet we see time and time over people struggle to understand. I know this cos I struggled too to fully grasp the concept. Short yet to the point. Well said bro. Easy to grasp even for non-native english readers.
Teslanv wrote:Truth: All Windings of a common motor design are able to produce the same amount of torque, if the phase current is increased for lower Kv motors proportional to the difference in Kv between windings. More copper fill will always be more efficient, and handle more power.

Reality: A High Kv (Faster) Motor will overheat quicker in a large diameter tire than will a Low Kv (High Kt) motor.
Reality: You can run a Low Kv (High Kt) motor with a smaller, more modest controller, as compared to a High Kv (Faster) winding.

Example: MXUS 3000W 3T and 4T windings benefit from an 18FET Controller to produce high torque, whereas the 5T and 6T windings of the same motor can generally get by with a 12FET controller.

The bottom line is that it all comes down to what size tire you want to run. If you want the fastest speed, get a samall diameter tire (Less than 26" O.D.) and use a 3T or 4T winding. If you want to run a fat tire bike (~28"+ O.D. tire) you are going to need a 5T or 6T winding.

Image


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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by markz » Jul 26 2015 5:08pm

I am bordering on light green to white, 4T 26".
Higher Kv motors like the 3T have a lower phase resistance and require twice the phase current to produce the same amount of torque as a 6T winding. Because the 3T requires more phase current, a larger, more powerful controlled is needed, compared to a 6T motor.

Conversely, the 6T motors requires twice the voltage to produce the same rpm as the 3T motor.
4T has more winding fill too, able to take more amps if my memory serves me right. I believe you teslanv posted that diagram somewhere. Very interesting indeed.
Also, the torque/speed motor myth comes to mind.

You can vary the voltage/amps to make a 4T run like a 6T, vice versa. I remember ES members saying
Build your battery around your motor
But if you are stuck on one specific setup, then yes strictly speaking if its set in stone 72V 60A, you need to decide on which winding is best for your needs.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by cwah » Jul 26 2015 5:40pm

I changed the connectors and now I'm on the tricky part. From the picture it seems that one of these is the on off switch:
Image

And I've been trying randomly on my wires but it created a big sparkle somehow:
Image

Any idea which one is best to connect to avoid sparkle??? Is it any of the other wires on the black?
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by markz » Jul 26 2015 6:45pm

And I've been trying randomly on my wires but it created a big sparkle somehow:
Yeah you dont want to be doing that.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by cwah » Jul 26 2015 7:00pm

New tentative...
Trying to connect the pink and black created a big spark....

It's too dangerous, i can't do trial like that :(
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by markz » Jul 26 2015 8:31pm

No no, but its normal for sparks when you connect the power wires. Need anti-spark connectors.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by cwah » Jul 26 2015 8:37pm

The problem is that i don't know if the spark is normal or not. It can be a short too!

What should i do?
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by markz » Jul 26 2015 9:26pm

The bottom one looks like a CA plug.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by markz » Jul 26 2015 9:26pm

The bottom one looks like a CA plug.
Need to find the throttle cable too, it should be three wires.
cwah wrote:I changed the connectors and now I'm on the tricky part. From the picture it seems that one of these is the on off switch:
Image

And I've been trying randomly on my wires but it created a big sparkle somehow:
Image

Any idea which one is best to connect to avoid sparkle??? Is it any of the other wires on the black?

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by cwah » Jul 27 2015 1:53am

I aleeady connected the throttle wires thst should be the one mentioned by renislav picture. But the on off switch I can't find a way to figure out which one it is
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