19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Get all your technical information about electric bikes here.
User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6899
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by Rix » Aug 20 2019 11:14am

True statements Tom, I agree with 100% of what you said.

User avatar
DogDipstick   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 604
Joined: Aug 19 2018 12:39pm
Location: Fleetwood Pa

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by DogDipstick » Aug 27 2019 8:41am

My contribution: Aug 2019.

Sur Ron 19" x 1.4 alu rim
Sur Ron hub, 110mm x 20 mm, 3mm hub holes, 5 mm offset,
11g spokes, 212mm from Treatland.tv w/ nipps 2.9 mm
(EDIT: I eventually went with Sapim Stainless 12g all around.. fit better, looked better, and tensed better.. from Yojimbos Garage.. little more expensive)
(lets face it, this is a MC ebike ( qs 205 bike), not a 13g spoke ebike)
Duro HF319 2.5" x 19" street classic MC tire, 4lbs...
9.7 lbs total. I will update when I get the rear done. I'm proud of myself for the first time, doing this. Thank you all for the wonderful input and making the knowledge available for the hobbyist like me.
Attachments
FWHEEL1.jpg
FWHEEL1.jpg (177.22 KiB) Viewed 405 times
FWheel2.jpg
FWheel2.jpg (222.87 KiB) Viewed 405 times
FWheel3.jpg
FWheel3.jpg (194.23 KiB) Viewed 405 times
Rear.jpg
Rear.jpg (203.78 KiB) Viewed 405 times
rimstem.jpg
rimstem.jpg (320.45 KiB) Viewed 405 times
TheHub.jpg
TheHub.jpg (203.62 KiB) Viewed 405 times
stopthat.jpg
stopthat.jpg (57 KiB) Viewed 404 times
nip2.jpg
nip2.jpg (75.34 KiB) Viewed 404 times
nip3.jpg
nip3.jpg (86.91 KiB) Viewed 404 times
nip4.jpg
nip4.jpg (53.34 KiB) Viewed 404 times
nips5.jpg
nips5.jpg (64.24 KiB) Viewed 404 times
TQARMMOCK.jpg
TQARMMOCK.jpg (156.59 KiB) Viewed 404 times
Last edited by DogDipstick on May 02 2020 11:11am, edited 3 times in total.
83.1v of Ironhorse XC.. :) :bolt: by Chevy :bolt: :D Broke 10 horsies :twisted: (..about 80% healed..).. :? Anybody.. what equals √3 times the line to neutral voltage? Asking for a friend.. :| (gottenymoem4115thangs?Yall?) :confused: Fabricator @ BSECo. Inc.

User avatar
The Toecutter   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 688
Joined: Feb 08 2015 4:02pm

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by The Toecutter » Sep 04 2019 5:35pm

ridethelightning wrote:
May 07 2019 4:17am
im now full convert to the sr241 religion, 19 2.75 front, 17 2.75 rear. they rock!
great on road, grippy as hell, surprising low rolling resistance! they will take just about anything off road too. makes me ride in totally different style :mrgreen:
they seem to last really well to boot.
How do these Shinko SR241 and SR244 19x2.75" tires compare to say, the Schwalbe Marathon Plus 26x1.75" in terms of rolling resistance? I'm not hugely concerned about weight, but rolling resistance coefficient is critical for my application.

I've been looking for a set of moped tires for my velomobile(to be converted to electric) that have a low enough rolling resistance to still be pedaled almost as easily as a normal unmotorized velomobile when the motor is disabled, at least at a steady speed on flat ground(there's no getting around the inertia losses from added weight during acceleration, which I can live with). I have found a few potential candidates for 20" bicycle wheels/16" motorcycle wheels, such as the Mitas MC2 16x2.25" or the Schwalbe Energizer Solar 16x2.4", but I need something suited for replacing a 26" rear bicycle wheel, in case a 20" rear bicycle wheel happens to be too small(and using a 26" rear wheel would allow me to bypass the need for a Schlumpf HS drive to get the high end gearing I need). WC wheel/tire is smaller than a 26" bicycle wheel/tire, it's not near as large of a size reduction for my drive wheel as going to 16"MC/20"BMX.

User avatar
ridethelightning   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1870
Joined: Jul 21 2013 9:48pm

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by ridethelightning » Sep 08 2019 7:12am

Schwalbe Marathon Plus has got to be very low resistance looking at the treat pattern.
but not too sure how good they would be in tussock grass :mrgreen:

User avatar
The Toecutter   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 688
Joined: Feb 08 2015 4:02pm

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by The Toecutter » Sep 08 2019 11:38am

ridethelightning wrote:
Sep 08 2019 7:12am
Schwalbe Marathon Plus has got to be very low resistance looking at the treat pattern.
but not too sure how good they would be in tussock grass :mrgreen:
As far as bicycle tires go, the Marathon Plus are perhaps the most puncture proof but will not hold up to goat heads, and their rolling resistance is about average as far as bicycle tires go, Crr around 0.007, while there are bicycle tires as high as 0.012 Crr and as low as 0.002 Crr. For comparison, most car tires are around 0.01 Crr, but some exist as low as 0.005 Crr. I'm looking for a motorcycle or moped tire with a Crr around 0.008 or less, but most of those seem to be 0.015 and above!

I'm looking for good puncture resistance that can withstand goathead thorns, strong sidewalls that won't fail when operating over road debris at highway speeds, and low rolling resistance all in the same tire. I know it's possible because there are car tires that do exactly that, but those are too big/heavy for my application, and for whatever reason, no one seems to make motorcycle or moped tires that are truly low rolling resistance.

rollingfieldz   100 µW

100 µW
Posts: 8
Joined: Oct 14 2019 8:07pm

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by rollingfieldz » Oct 29 2019 3:51pm

Hello all, what do you think about pairing 19 x 1.4 rims with the IRC GP1 2.75 tires? If those are too wide, what would be a comparable dual sport tire that's just a little narrower? Thanks!

User avatar
Merlin   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2015
Joined: Jan 29 2013 10:00am
Location: europe

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by Merlin » Oct 29 2019 4:01pm

19x1,4 + 2.75 tires are no problem

rockstar195   100 W

100 W
Posts: 163
Joined: May 13 2019 8:33pm

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by rockstar195 » Oct 29 2019 4:34pm

Jamil.Siddiqi wrote:
Jun 10 2019 3:26pm
My conversion has been taking longer than expected. First I fried a Cycle Analyst and bought a replacement. Then I decided to keep the dirt tire on the old wheel and built up a new wheel with new 5KW motor, including statoraid and hubsinks. The dropout needed to be increased to 150mm, hence I built the following adapter:

dropout2.jpg


the new adapter (7075 aluminum) is probably the strongest part of the bike now. With the statoraid and higher voltage I hope to get 8-10KW out of the motor.

I also installed a new chainring:
chainring.jpg

It looks pretty insane and is a bit too large - the chain slightly touches the seat stay. I should have taken 80T vs. the shown 85T version. With a bigger rear triangle this should not be a problem. I really did not think about clearance in this area.

A new 120A controller and 120A BMS are also installed. The bike moves, but somehow power is cuttoff when I reach about 20 amps - goes down to zero. Need to research that and hope to be riding soon.
Image


How did you figure out how to balance the whole rear wheel with the hub???? If anybody else knows how to do this please let us know thanks

User avatar
Merlin   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2015
Joined: Jan 29 2013 10:00am
Location: europe

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by Merlin » Oct 29 2019 6:07pm

you would be one of the first doing this. Car rim balance weights are not the best idea :D
is it that bad that you need balancing?

i see you installed tubliss....putting the pressure valve opposite site is better for balance.

anyway you can balance it with normal "spoke" weights.

User avatar
sn0wchyld   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1768
Joined: Mar 18 2011 8:27pm
Location: South Aus.

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by sn0wchyld » Oct 29 2019 8:12pm

rockstar195 wrote:
Oct 29 2019 4:34pm
Jamil.Siddiqi wrote:
Jun 10 2019 3:26pm
My conversion has been taking longer than expected. First I fried a Cycle Analyst and bought a replacement. Then I decided to keep the dirt tire on the old wheel and built up a new wheel with new 5KW motor, including statoraid and hubsinks. The dropout needed to be increased to 150mm, hence I built the following adapter:

dropout2.jpg


the new adapter (7075 aluminum) is probably the strongest part of the bike now. With the statoraid and higher voltage I hope to get 8-10KW out of the motor.

I also installed a new chainring:
chainring.jpg

It looks pretty insane and is a bit too large - the chain slightly touches the seat stay. I should have taken 80T vs. the shown 85T version. With a bigger rear triangle this should not be a problem. I really did not think about clearance in this area.

A new 120A controller and 120A BMS are also installed. The bike moves, but somehow power is cuttoff when I reach about 20 amps - goes down to zero. Need to research that and hope to be riding soon.
Image


How did you figure out how to balance the whole rear wheel with the hub???? If anybody else knows how to do this please let us know thanks
I did it with my tubliss bike - but took off the balancing and honestly other than around 20km'h I cant tell that its unbalanced (20km'h being a harmonic). Even then its at the edge of perception... you can only just feel the ossilation only on perfectly smooth roads, within about 0.5km'h of 20km'h. Not worht the weight of balancing imo.

you could do so by trial and error, spinning and moving weights around till its balanced (suspend rear end of bike from an elastic cord and spin it up). Alternatively remove the side covers and rotor, reassemble without the stator and balance that way. More work than its worth IMO unless you're going really fast.

sleepy_tired   100 W

100 W
Posts: 102
Joined: Jul 02 2019 11:46am

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by sleepy_tired » Oct 29 2019 11:38pm

The old fashioned way to balance car tires was to use a machine that just let the tire teeter-totter then you'd add weights to make it even. You can still pick up a balancing tool from harbor freight that uses a bubble indicator. Not as good as a real balancing machine, but it'll get you in the right ballpark. Won't work with hub motors, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NFaL5QwFK8

Probably can do something like and hang the the wheel from the axle from a rope from the ceiling and use a a very level table and measure which side is heavier.

rollingfieldz   100 µW

100 µW
Posts: 8
Joined: Oct 14 2019 8:07pm

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by rollingfieldz » Oct 30 2019 2:14am

Merlin wrote:
Oct 29 2019 4:01pm
19x1,4 + 2.75 tires are no problem


Thank you Merlin, I like the idea of using a rim on the narrower side so long as it works well, as I would think this gives the tire a taller profile and is so better for shock absorption, which for me is a priority along with a tire thats all purpose, flat resistant and stable at moderately fast (40ish mph) speeds. I was looking at 24 inch bike rims to pair with a 3 inch 24 inch Denzel E bike tire which seems practically unique in terms of its toughness. It seems like there's some strong wide 24 inch bike rims being made but it's hard to get your hands on one. The dominator 2 unicycle rim is sold out everywhere, and I cannot find a MTX 39 or the 50mm Alex rim they use for motopeds. Anyway 19x1.4 rims + 2.75 tires look like a great way to go. There are many more heavy duty tire choices and I think they will have 6mm hole that will work with the homes hobbies moped nipples to use 13 gauge spokes and nexus 3 hub. I am still looking for a good value 135mm bolt on or QR hub able to take 13 gauge spokes for the front.

User avatar
Merlin   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2015
Joined: Jan 29 2013 10:00am
Location: europe

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by Merlin » Oct 30 2019 5:00am

If you wanna comfort the rim has to be wide...
Wide rim = less pressure possible for the tire.
Less pressure = more comfort.

The difference in weight between 1.4 and 1.6 rim is not noticeable.

Most weight comes from the tire itself.

rollingfieldz   100 µW

100 µW
Posts: 8
Joined: Oct 14 2019 8:07pm

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by rollingfieldz » Oct 30 2019 12:45pm

Merlin wrote:
Oct 30 2019 5:00am
If you wanna comfort the rim has to be wide...
Wide rim = less pressure possible for the tire.
Less pressure = more comfort.

The difference in weight between 1.4 and 1.6 rim is not noticeable.

Most weight comes from the tire itself.
Good point about the bigger rim allowing for lower pressure. It seems to me though, "if" the pressure was the same, the taller profile might be more comfortable, but maybe not. I'm looking for an all-around balance more so than optimize any one particular thing, I don't expect to be riding a very low pressures. It seems like since id be going half as fast and weigh a lot less than the tire is rated for i will have more leeway on the pressure than i would otherwise. For me the 1.4 over 1.6 is mostly about cost as opposed to weight. 1.4 is a little cheaper as are the Holmes moped nipples opposed to the bigger ones for the larger holes. I may go with the Wickedwheelwerks 1.6s anyway.

deadlyvirus   100 µW

100 µW
Posts: 7
Joined: Nov 03 2019 3:24pm

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tir

Post by deadlyvirus » Nov 08 2019 10:10am

zombiess wrote:
Nov 25 2013 12:44pm
Just another warning to watch your rim width when going to MC rims/tires. I purchased some 19x2.14" wide Warp9 wheels but did not fully understand the width until I received them already built from VoltRiders. They were WAY wider than I anticipated. With the tires mounted the 19x2.75" Shinko SR244 tires ended up being 3.3x" wide at the cross section! Luckily for me this was not an issue and everything fit my Greyborg Warp frame and DNM USD180 forks. The forks have the tightest fit with less than 1/4" clearance to the narrowest part of the down tubes.

I did not set out to build a fat tire bike but it is now what I have and it looks and rides AWESOME!

Be aware you will pay a weight penalty of around 5-10lbs per wheel when going to a MC setup, but the benefits are super long tire life, low chance of a flat tire (my main reason I went MC/Moped in the first place), a more cushioned ride (lower air pressure required), stronger spokes since it is now OK to build with spokes as thick as 8-10 gauge and far superior traction. Another upside I noticed is they loose air a lot slower so they require less frequent pumping. Yet another upside is that building a moped/MC setup costs about the same as a bicycle setup! Most rims/tires/tubes for moped/MC are the same or even cheaper than the same bicycle parts.

For reference in the last 3 years of bicycle riding i have experienced at least 10 flats between all my bikes when running bicycle tires. On bicycles with moped/mc tires I have had ZERO flats. Total miles on each type of setup is ~500.

For most bicycle setups I suggest not going larger than 19" as it is very hard to find a tire that will fit in 21". For 19" there are narrow (2.5") street tires available for old school dirt bikes and mopeds. Check out treatland.tv for some 19" street suggestions.

For those interested in the Shinko offerings, the SR241 is a 60% dirt / 40% street tire and the SR244 is a 60% street / 40% dirt tire from the many reviews I have seen.
Hello Zombie. I Saw your comment here. I was hoping if you could help me with checking and picking Warp9Racing RIMS. I really like how they look but I'm not sure if they are compatible with my build. please check out my Build Post here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=103101

rockstar195   100 W

100 W
Posts: 163
Joined: May 13 2019 8:33pm

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by rockstar195 » Nov 11 2019 11:33am

I have an Enduro EEB, 72V, QS 205, 19" x 1.85" rims.

I'm going to replace the cheap chinese spokes and nipples on the front rim, as there is no play or flex because they are 10g spokes.

What would be the best gauge to use on the front rim - this is mainly a street bike, no offroading.
1) 12 G ?
2) 13/14 G (butted)? OR
3) Stick w/ the 10G?

Ianhill   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2043
Joined: Sep 25 2015 5:55pm

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by Ianhill » Nov 11 2019 11:43am

I made a 12g front rim up and it was stiff as hell luckily I was using a fat tyre for some give on the road holding side, if i was you and can get the 13g butted then your golden it's the choice of the wise bit of give and comfort plenty of strength not gonna crack a rim from stress like with a 10g spoke.

rockstar195   100 W

100 W
Posts: 163
Joined: May 13 2019 8:33pm

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by rockstar195 » Nov 11 2019 5:01pm

Ok 13g butted for the front.
What about for the rear? 12g or 10g?

I'm still using the 9g chinese ones on my Excel rim and will change them after I'm done with the front.

Ianhill   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2043
Joined: Sep 25 2015 5:55pm

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by Ianhill » Nov 11 2019 5:06pm

12g possibly, I used a 10g on a 2.15 rim rear and was heavy duty to the max same tyre type so lucky that flexed a bit turned a tyre with no sidewall support and dangerous to plausable with the rim but that was it's only upside I could find maybe others have a betrer experience but it felt like motorbike wheels on a push bike cuz that's exactly what it was more or less hope that helps.

rockstar195   100 W

100 W
Posts: 163
Joined: May 13 2019 8:33pm

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by rockstar195 » Nov 15 2019 9:20am

Can anyone else chime in if 12g will be ok for a 19" rear moto rim with a QS 205 hub for street use? Just concerned if it they will be too thin. Am trying to use a thicker gauge if I don't have to.

User avatar
minde28383   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 549
Joined: Apr 02 2010 7:11am

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by minde28383 » Nov 15 2019 9:44am

12g does not mean precise digits. Well, it does, but better find out what you buy in mm. It does not mater what geage it is, 12,11,10 will do fine. The chepper it is the more crap you get.
Maybe you rim spoke holes are too big for 12g spoke nipples? Find out your spoke nipple diameter and rim holes diameter. Find out if you will you need some washers or bigger diameter nipples what.
ebike build in progress
CN 5.5kw scooter (on sale)
E Mindless Maverick Talisman longboard, 2.2KW motor, 150Amps controller (on sale)

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6899
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by Rix » Nov 16 2019 12:03pm

rockstar195 wrote:
Nov 15 2019 9:20am
Can anyone else chime in if 12g will be ok for a 19" rear moto rim with a QS 205 hub for street use? Just concerned if it they will be too thin. Am trying to use a thicker gauge if I don't have to.
If you are using a nipple that is at least 5.8mm barrel diameter, it will work great for most rims in the 19x1.40 range. If you are using a 19x1.85" wide rim, you need nipples with a 7mm barrel diameter for most standard punch hole sizes for that rim.

j bjork   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 515
Joined: Aug 31 2018 3:01pm
Location: Linköping, Sweden

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by j bjork » Nov 16 2019 1:16pm

If you buy a standard rim the spoke angle will probably be wrong, so you will have to modify the hole anyway.
Or maybe it works with too small nipples and washers.
Or you can order a rim with custom spoke angles, then you can probably order the hole diameter you want too.

User avatar
DogDipstick   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 604
Joined: Aug 19 2018 12:39pm
Location: Fleetwood Pa

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by DogDipstick » Nov 19 2019 12:25pm

rockstar195 wrote:
Nov 15 2019 9:20am
Can anyone else chime in if 12g will be ok for a 19" rear moto rim with a QS 205 hub for street use? Just concerned if it they will be too thin. Am trying to use a thicker gauge if I don't have to.
They will be fine, and fit niceley. This is what I have. 19"x1.4" rim with "long" nips and 12Ga spokes from Yojimbos Garage on eBay.

11 Ga is a struggle to fit into the qs205 V1 I have. 10Ga would fit, but the powdercoat on the 36 hub motor holes would be drilled out for nice fitment.
83.1v of Ironhorse XC.. :) :bolt: by Chevy :bolt: :D Broke 10 horsies :twisted: (..about 80% healed..).. :? Anybody.. what equals √3 times the line to neutral voltage? Asking for a friend.. :| (gottenymoem4115thangs?Yall?) :confused: Fabricator @ BSECo. Inc.

rockstar195   100 W

100 W
Posts: 163
Joined: May 13 2019 8:33pm

Re: 19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

Post by rockstar195 » Nov 19 2019 4:14pm

DogDipstick wrote:
Nov 19 2019 12:25pm
rockstar195 wrote:
Nov 15 2019 9:20am
Can anyone else chime in if 12g will be ok for a 19" rear moto rim with a QS 205 hub for street use? Just concerned if it they will be too thin. Am trying to use a thicker gauge if I don't have to.
They will be fine, and fit niceley. This is what I have. 19"x1.4" rim with "long" nips and 12Ga spokes from Yojimbos Garage on eBay.

11 Ga is a struggle to fit into the qs205 V1 I have. 10Ga would fit, but the powdercoat on the 36 hub motor holes would be drilled out for nice fitment.
I ordered my front sapim 13G butted spokes from Yojimbos on ebay on the 11th which was 8 days ago. He's probably busy as I haven't received a tracking number or any response to the messages I sent him.
I hope to hear something and get my spokes soon.

Post Reply