2WD (Two-Wheel Drive) FAQ

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cycleops612   10 kW

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Re: 2WD (Two-Wheel Drive) FAQ

Post by cycleops612 » Nov 23 2017 6:33am

PS.

My biggest fear w/ incurring the wrath of the local cops, is not having a plan B to make it kosher again once I have been warned once and noted. Simply removing/swapping the front wheel for road use I could live with.

To being precluded from the road seems a big/costly risk.

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Re: 2WD (Two-Wheel Drive) FAQ

Post by d8veh » Nov 23 2017 7:36am

You can use one throttle with more than one controller provided that you only use the 5v wire from one controller, i.e. don't parallel the 5v wires. If you're using more than one battery, you need to make sure that the grounds are linked to give one common ground. You don't need a buffer if you do it that way.

The problem that you need to avoid is that the 5v will not be the same on each controller, so you can get strange effects when you connect them, and the same thing if you don't have a common ground.

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motomech   1 GW

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Re: 2WD (Two-Wheel Drive) FAQ

Post by motomech » Nov 23 2017 8:08am

cycleops612 wrote:
Nov 23 2017 6:25am
markz wrote:
Nov 22 2017 9:23pm
You are breaking the law, are you prepared for that?
I bet you'r fun at parties. :)

Just saying, my longyeah axial drive mid motor (24 powered gears) is only visible to the practiced eye (unlike the battery of course). I strongly suspect a second motor would pass notice.

What hasnt been mentioned afaik, is there are advantages to opting for powering each wheel optionally, vs sharing a controller, and it to some extent diminishes the need for full power to both from a single battery, tho I agree, more amps is better for when you do want both at full power(best avoided rangewise anyhoo). This is not the case when traction is the issue.

I also like regen on one (front ideally) but not both motors, due to the slight drag.

In theory, I think I would opt for a twist throttle, with an adjacent thumb throttle, and with practice, both controllable with one hand.
In theory, I think I would opt for a twist throttle, with an adjacent thumb throttle, and with practice, both controllable with one hand.
In theory????
On page 8 I show how I do it (w. pic.s) and explain that it works well.
Time for you to stop pretending you are charting unexplored territory and rather than rehashing our ideas, maybe you should build something and show us something new in your own build thread.
Motomech


'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100H 201 frt. mounted, 14S Multistar LiPoly, elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A, Crazy Bobs on Alex DM32's 21 to 22 MPH. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=28151&p=1373714&hilit=Idrive#p13737

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: 2WD (Two-Wheel Drive) FAQ

Post by teklektik » Nov 23 2017 9:51am

motomech wrote:
Nov 23 2017 8:08am
cycleops612 wrote:
Nov 23 2017 6:25am
.....
What hasnt been mentioned afaik, is there are advantages to opting for powering each wheel optionally, vs sharing a controller,
...
In theory, I think I would opt for a twist throttle, with an adjacent thumb throttle, and with practice, both controllable with one hand.
In theory????
On page 8 I show how I do it (w. pic.s) and explain that it works well.

Time for you to stop pretending you are charting unexplored territory and rather than rehashing our ideas, maybe you should build something and show us something new in your own build thread.
Seriously? You kept reading after 'shared controller'?
Visit Grin Technologies at www.ebikes.ca
Build Thread: 2WD Yuba Mundo V4

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Alan B   100 GW

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Re: 2WD (Two-Wheel Drive) FAQ

Post by Alan B » Nov 23 2017 9:57am

just to be crystal clear, you cannot share BLDC controllers (unless the motors are locked together in the right phase relationship). BLDC's electronic commutation must respond independently to each motor's actual position.

You can share Brushed controllers (with brushed motors).

cycleops612   10 kW

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Re: 2WD (Two-Wheel Drive) FAQ

Post by cycleops612 » Nov 23 2017 1:50pm

motomech, more laboriously than "in theory", i meant i have not done it, but that seemed best from past reading & considering the matter for myself.

Its a v old thread and yes i saw your? late posts belatedly - it happens - boo hoo - why so upset?

it seemed relevant to the posters query & you confirm that - its simply a repeat.

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Re: 2WD (Two-Wheel Drive) FAQ

Post by Monkeypowah » Nov 23 2017 4:49pm

Battery mount needed some alteration...drill, to let battery fit in frame, it was like 3mm from letting the lock hold it in place.
rear wheel mounted, test ride with everything taped on, nice acceleration, can't complain about this kit for the money, it slotted in perfectly, disc lined up spot on.
Left off everything like pedal assist, brake cutouts, it has a 3 led indicator on the twist grip which is suitable for warning aircraft at night, thats getting ditched.

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Rassy   10 MW

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Re: 2WD (Two-Wheel Drive) FAQ

Post by Rassy » Nov 23 2017 5:40pm

it has a 3 led indicator on the twist grip which is suitable for warning aircraft at night, thats getting ditched.
Those 3 led indicators are set for a 36V sla battery so go super bright on 48 volts and don't give you any information except that the system is turned on. It's a good idea anyway to "cut" the wire that carries full voltage to the throttle which helps eliminate one potential source of a short. Of course I don't know which color that wire is. I think normally red, black, and blue/purple are the three wires needed for the throttle, but you would need to verify that.
-Rassy-

Two Delta Trikes equipped with a Bafang BBS02
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=88536&p=1291260#p1291260

Monkeypowah   10 mW

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Re: 2WD (Two-Wheel Drive) FAQ

Post by Monkeypowah » Nov 24 2017 12:23pm

Thanks, probably going to put a thumb throttle on, I'll have to work out the wires by taking it apart just to be sure.
Ordered one of these to be built into a 24 inch rim, have to seriously widen the stays out to 175mm, but 80nm of torque should help a lot.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/36-48V-500W- ... SwCU1Ytmyb

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Re: 2WD (Two-Wheel Drive) FAQ

Post by Monkeypowah » Nov 26 2017 7:27am

I've instantly hit all the problems that the wise old owls on here warned me about, basically it works fine, I've got it just banging in the front hub, no problems, not enough torque to be an issue, things like the battery clanking away over rough ground are making the bike feeling like a tank.
Updates are, more securely, rubber mounted battery, 24 inch rims and a high torque fatbike hub in the rear, the battery is coping well.
Also bough a second hand downhill rear suspension frame, hopefully that will reduce the stress on the battery as well.
I'm not taking any pictures cos it looks like an electric scarecrow at the moment.

markz   100 GW

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Re: 2WD (Two-Wheel Drive) FAQ

Post by markz » Nov 27 2017 8:21pm

I was being facetious ( not meant to be taken seriously or literally: a facetious remark. 2. amusing; humorous. 3. lacking serious intent; concerned with something nonessential, amusing, or frivolous: )

in a sense because some people take the term 250W literally and go to extraordinary lengths to follow some bs law to the T.

I say since a 500W motors diameter is the same as a 3000W motors diameter (but much wider) no one will know nothing anyways. Im not scared of power legislated or otherwise 8)

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tomjasz   10 GW

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2WD MAC

Post by tomjasz » Nov 29 2017 1:13am

Finally ordered the rear 10T MAC for my 2wd build. Anyone use MAC? I've a wiring scheme from teslanv. Any suggestions?
Screen Shot 2017-11-25 at 3.09.53 PM.png
Screen Shot 2017-11-25 at 3.09.53 PM.png (228.14 KiB) Viewed 1786 times
Two 12 FET IRFB4110 EM3ev Controller (Black Case). Not sure how clunky it'll look with two controllers and a bundle if wire to cover and hide away.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

linear   100 mW

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Re: 2WD (Two-Wheel Drive) FAQ

Post by linear » Nov 29 2017 3:17pm

cycleops612 wrote:
Nov 23 2017 6:33am
PS.

My biggest fear w/ incurring the wrath of the local cops, is not having a plan B to make it kosher again once I have been warned once and noted.
To being precluded from the road seems a big/costly risk.
Yes, to incur the abuse of the LEO team, especially when they already have their focus on you is annoying to say the least. Most of my current project plans will no doubt cross the line in their minds.
Anyway, did order a pair of kits to experiment with 2WD, regen, and electric braking. Winter coming soon will really limit any use or testing.
Primary Battery: CR2032

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Re: 2WD (Two-Wheel Drive) FAQ

Post by csc » Dec 04 2017 3:33pm

I found a trick to push the slave speed limit in 2wd mode ! More details here : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 8#p1338398

Monkeypowah   10 mW

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Re: 2WD (Two-Wheel Drive) FAQ

Post by Monkeypowah » Jan 22 2018 1:17pm

Well it is moving along, though I bought thru axle front forks without thinking that through.
So how do I mount a front hub to them...possibly get some adaptors machined, I guess anything is possible.
Have to be caliper off to remove wheel.
Anyway..herrs the nearly finished bike in 1 wheel drive.

https://i.imgur.com/aHta9dlr.jpg

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Valopallo   10 W

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Re: 2WD (Two-Wheel Drive) FAQ

Post by Valopallo » Apr 09 2019 10:53am

Hello. Building a 2wd here also. I have s06s with the rear DD motor and KT36ZWS with the front geared hub motor. Both have individual 36V 15A batteries and they will share throttle, PAS and brake signals and also the common ground of the batteries. I already have mounted the main power switch (of the LCD cable harness) for the rear motor/s06s to the bike and would like to use that same switch to power on/off both controllers/motors. I don't use LCD but have bluetooth for both of the controllers. Can I connect the red and blue wires of the controllers in parallel so I can use only one switch to power on/off or will this result burning the controllers?
BluOSEC@36V|AWD|2xS06S|15A rear DD|10A front geared|Hardtail|Tunturi

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: 2WD (Two-Wheel Drive) FAQ

Post by tomjasz » Apr 09 2019 2:16pm

New from Grin!

Precision 1mOhm Stand Alone Cycle Analyst Shunt prewired for dual controllers. A plug and play solution to let you easily run and control dual motor systems off of a single V3 Cycle Analyst. Battery cable input is split for 1 or 2 batteries in parallel, battery output is split for each controller power, and throttle signal from CA-DP plug is split into two 3-pin throttle plugs for the controllers.
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Screen Shot 2019-04-09 at 2.15.33 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-04-09 at 2.15.33 PM.png (80.81 KiB) Viewed 1020 times
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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electricwheels.de   100 W

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Re: 2WD (Two-Wheel Drive) FAQ

Post by electricwheels.de » Apr 15 2019 4:29pm

Hi all,
I've been riding my AWD Surly Ice Cream Truck now for about 3 years. It basically has 2 12T MACs, each having a 40A Controller with one common shunt, one CA3, one thrigger (for motor speed, similar to a throttle) and one poti (for motor torque). 48 V and limited to 50A. Total weight is about 40kg.
Pros: Really good on Sand, super steerable - easy to do a donut/180 deg turn on dry fine deep white sand without putting a foot down. Easy to run through a foot deep water or snow. Excellent acceleration.
Cons: Heavy. Not good at jumping, or short, sharp turns on single tracks. Still managed 8th place in an amateur enduro event though :mrgreen: .
My opinion: Good if you live where there are lots of sandy tracks, like some MTB tracks in the Netherlands (my favoured: Schoorlse Duinen MTB track).
e-Fatbike_AWD_Sandkatze_16.JPG
Surly AWD Sandkatze
Custom made cables and wiring harnesses for e-bikes. HIGO and JULET connectors, extension cables and much more. World wide mail order.
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