Please review this before I place an order

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AF7JA   100 W

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Location: Salt Lake, UT

Please review this before I place an order

Post by AF7JA » Feb 09 2020 2:10pm

This is going to go an a Rotovello (a moderately heavy velomobile). I also have a 48V 30AH LiFePO4 battery that I will be using with it. My goal is not high speed, instead, I am looking for range and the ability to pull a trailer with solar panels. I already have the solar panels and charge controller from my Kansas to Utah "never plug in" tour.

So this is basically the IGH hub motor from ebikes.ca

TDCM IGH KIT, BASIC THROTTLE
Motor Winding Type ( Fast 395 winding recommended for 20" wheels) 1 x IGH_395

Include a Wheel Build?1 x WheelBuildSelect Rim for Custom Wheel Build

1 x Rim20_AlexSelect

Spokes for Custom Wheel Build36 x Sapim Strong 13-14g Butted Spoke, Black

Controller1 x C4825-GR

*Cycle Analyst or LED Display Console?*1 x CA3-DP

Throttle Choice1 x T-Lever

include *Tidy Wiring Kit?*1 x WireRouteKit

Nightdiver13   1 mW

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Re: Please review this before I place an order

Post by Nightdiver13 » Feb 09 2020 2:53pm

Have you run that motor configuration through Grin's trip simulator on the more stressful (hills, temp, etc) parts of the trip you're planning? My experience with running that hub through the simulators is that it heats up pretty quickly with the combo of gradient (length and/or severity) and higher gross vehicle weights.

AF7JA   100 W

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Location: Salt Lake, UT

Re: Please review this before I place an order

Post by AF7JA » Feb 11 2020 8:51am

Just to follow up, I got come information straight from Grin.
  • Even though the website says to use the faster winding for 20" wheels, they suggested that I go with the slower winding
  • As expected, the CA 3 will give me more of what I need, including built-in (as compared to modifying the CA right out of the box) temperature monitoring.
I will probably add the Stator Aide; In the simulator, it seems to do some good. I will probably add the brake levers, I have some, from another kit, lying about but they were os such poor quality that I never used them, I hope Grin's are better. The thinking of the brake levers is that, when touring, the total rig will probably be heavy enough to get some value from regenerative braking.

As far as grades go, on the Kansas-Utah my steepest grade was about three miles of 13% (I broke a few chains on that one, then rode back to Pueblo to get BMX chain. I can safely say that hill took three days to climb). Then there was a long grade of about 7%. I had to stop on that one and let the solar panels do their stuff while I read and went for a short hike.

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Please review this before I place an order

Post by dogman dan » Feb 14 2020 9:21am

Mid drive it would be better. especially if the weight gets really big.

Not that you can't do a heavy rig up hills with a hub. But a strong mid drive will be better.

DO NOT pick the fast wind for a trailer hauling hub motor. You want the slower wind. Because all that weight will have you going slower, unless you choose a really big motor that can handle 2000-3000w, which is what it takes to go 15 mph up a mountain pass weighing over 400 pounds total weight.

So if your motor is going to push you up that hill at 10 mph, pick a motor that runs efficiently that slow, under heavy load.

So you need the 305 motor for sure. I can say for sure in 20" hub 400 pound load outs will be fine. It will have about the same capabilities my low power trailer hauler had. Over 400 pounds loads, that will need a mid drive, or larger more powerful motor.

My rig had 48-52v, 22 amps, 20 inch wheel and 500w rated, lower speed dd motor. It hauled me, 2000wh of battery, and a bob trailer with 30 pounds on it up my motor melting test mountain easily without overheat. 400 pound load total. So you will get that at least with a 305 rpm motor. Exact same load with higher rpm motor did make it too, but very hot at the top of the 5 mile long climb. It was pushing it to the very limit with the faster wind, and a watt limit less that 2000w.

Weigh it all, if its over 400 pounds, you need to mid drive it, or two hubmotors so you have 2000w + when it gets steep and long.

Taswegian   100 mW

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Re: Please review this before I place an order

Post by Taswegian » Feb 15 2020 7:47pm

Is a derailleur an option? The sim suggests that in this power class a GMAC can be far stronger than a TCDM at low speed if fed enough current whilst retaining regen.

AF7JA   100 W

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Location: Salt Lake, UT

Re: Please review this before I place an order

Post by AF7JA » Mar 23 2020 5:30pm

Taswegian wrote:
Feb 15 2020 7:47pm
Is a derailleur an option? The sim suggests that in this power class a GMAC can be far stronger than a TCDM at low speed if fed enough current whilst retaining regen.
I want to get away from a derailleur. I just find them to fiddley. On this one, I went with a NuVinci. If I were to go Mid-Drive I would use a NuVinci again.
Image
(this was a Bao Fang/NuVinci)
I keep thinking that I may put a NuVinci on my commuter, too much sitting around turns one's thoughts to tinkering.

I placed my order only about a week before the COVID shutdown, so it may be a while before I see my parts. I hope not, as that will give me something to do as I sit around.

Balmorhea   1 kW

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Re: Please review this before I place an order

Post by Balmorhea » Mar 23 2020 6:20pm

AF7JA wrote:
Mar 23 2020 5:30pm
I want to get away from a derailleur. I just find them to fiddley. On this one, I went with a NuVinci. If I were to go Mid-Drive I would use a NuVinci again.
That’s just a different kind of fiddly. On a multi-state tour, you’ll encounter more parts support and a lot more qualified expert help with a derailleur system than with a NuVinci, nice though it may be. For instance, there is no kind of service you can do to a derailleur system that compares in annoyance to replacing the shift cables in a first generation NuVinci. Likewise, it’s rare anymore to find a bike shop with the tools required to remove a worn-out freewheel on a first-gen NuVinci. I understand that both these issues may be easier if you have a later NuVinci, e.g. N380.

Most of the bothersome or expensive nonsense related to derailleur drivetrains can be avoided by lImiting to 9 rear speeds or less.

AF7JA   100 W

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Posts: 136
Joined: Jun 09 2015 3:56pm
Location: Salt Lake, UT

Re: Please review this before I place an order

Post by AF7JA » Mar 23 2020 7:43pm

Balmorhea wrote:
Mar 23 2020 6:20pm
AF7JA wrote:
Mar 23 2020 5:30pm
I want to get away from a derailleur. I just find them to fiddley. On this one, I went with a NuVinci. If I were to go Mid-Drive I would use a NuVinci again.
That’s just a different kind of fiddly. On a multi-state tour, you’ll encounter more parts support and a lot more qualified expert help with a derailleur system than with a NuVinci, nice though it may be. For instance, there is no kind of service you can do to a derailleur system that compares in annoyance to replacing the shift cables in a first generation NuVinci. Likewise, it’s rare anymore to find a bike shop with the tools required to remove a worn-out freewheel on a first-gen NuVinci. I understand that both these issues may be easier if you have a later NuVinci, e.g. N380.

Most of the bothersome or expensive nonsense related to derailleur drivetrains can be avoided by lImiting to 9 rear speeds or less.
Installing the NuVinci on the one in the picture I learned about installing shifters on the NuVinci. You are right, it is a bit different. My first NuVinci was on an N360 commuter bike. Then I had an N330 on a terra trike I got my wife, it later Became an N360 on a different trike for her. Then I built the one in the picture with an N380.

I also have another N380 sitting here in my home office, I was going to go with it and a mid-drive on the Rotovelo. I just never got around to truing up the 20" wheel I was going to use. All that said, I never did use the earlier series of NuVinci, the N171.

Parts support can be an issue on the road, but I have never needed any parts. The only odd thing was the chain breaking I mentioned. I went to a bike shop in Pueblo (A great one right along the Trans-America Trail). I went in and asked if they had any heavy duty single speed chains. they had some BMX chains and I took three. I ended up doing some tinkering on the chain line, on a sidewalk, but I did get the rig working for the rest of the trip.

Recumbents have long and complex chain lines. I would like to simplify it as much as possible.

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