Motor cover split around freewheel while pedaling.

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
05silgto   1 mW

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Re: Increasing top speed by overvolting?

Post by 05silgto » Jun 30 2020 3:34am

So, I was biking in a park today with lots of hills. I had my motor off and was pedaling my bike myself since my friend who I was with had an electric with much more range than me, so I try to be conservative as much as possible. Next thing I know, I hear a noise and it feels like my chain has fallen off, only that it hasn't.

https://ibb.co/Jsw9qKt

https://ibb.co/vwmP9L8

Has anyone ever seen this before? Worried it may happen again out of warranty. I bought this less that a month ago so I may be able to still return it.

05silgto   1 mW

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Motor cover split around freewheel while pedaling.

Post by 05silgto » Jul 01 2020 4:56am

So, I was biking in a park today with lots of hills. I had my motor off and was pedaling my bike myself to be conservative since my friend who I was with had an electric bike with much more range than me. Next thing I know, I hear a noise and it feels like my chain has fallen off, only that it hasn't.

https://ibb.co/Jsw9qKt

https://ibb.co/vwmP9L8

Has anyone ever seen this before? Worried it may happen again. Whenever I pedal the freewheel just spins in place but the motos still rotates the wheel. I contacted the seller and the first thing they say after seeing the picture was, that it was caused due to improper installation. Now they say it may have been caused due to improper usage. Apparently, I'm not supposed to pedal hard on hills "in low gears", by pedaling too hard I have caused improper usage. Then whats the point of having an electric bike? I have owned this kit for about only 20 days now. The seller is trying to make me pay $40 in shipping to send me a new motor cover. I bought this through ebay, so I just issued a claim for a full return(including $100 shipping) due to a defective product. Now I have to wait 7 days to give the seller a chance to fix things before ebay steps in which doesn't look very likely. CSC is the company that sold me this kit in case anybody was curious.

AngryBob   100 W

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Re: Motor cover split around freewheel while pedaling.

Post by AngryBob » Jul 01 2020 6:28am

Yes, there have been several cases of this happening. Would not call it common, but it in not unknown.

Unfortunately, over half of them used externally hosted pictures which are no longer visible as the hosting site closed down. So detailed analysis is impossible.

Difficult to see exactly what is happening in your photos. Do not see an obvious crack or breakage in motor cover, as has been present in most of the viewable photos I have seen.

What is the brand name or designation on the motor itself? Name of the seller is virtually useless, they did not make the motor itself.

You should get a free replacement, but such is the nature of this business. That seller can simply close the shop and start back up with a new name. If you used a credit card or Paypal start a dispute IMMEDIATELY. Do not close the dispute until replacement parts or refund have been received by you.
"Not being treated like a dumb dick is one of the incentives we have to become less stupid." - Balmorhea.

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Motor cover split around freewheel while pedaling.

Post by dogman dan » Jul 01 2020 12:46pm

Typical ebay vendor warranty response. It is what it is. You might try bitching to e bay, or even your charge card for a refund.

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Re: Motor cover split around freewheel while pedaling.

Post by Balmorhea » Jul 01 2020 1:47pm

AngryBob wrote:
Jul 01 2020 6:28am
Difficult to see exactly what is happening in your photos. Do not see an obvious crack or breakage in motor cover, as has been present in most of the viewable photos I have seen.
It’s right there to see; a circular portion of the side cover broke out with the freewheel on it. It didn’t slide down the axle very far, but only enough to expose the broken edge. That’s probably all the room it had before the outer end of the freewheel contacted some part of the bike frame.

In looking up accounts of this kind of failure for another discussion, I found a post where someone had broken his motor the same way on its very first ride, while jamming up a hill in San Francisco.
viewtopic.php?t=12605

I suspect that a common element in both these cases is the use of a small front ring, which multiplies the tension on the chain.

05silgto   1 mW

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Re: Motor cover split around freewheel while pedaling.

Post by 05silgto » Jul 01 2020 3:59pm

Sounds like the best choice is to return the kit and look for one that comes with a cassette hub.
I was only using a 7 speed when it broke and my bike is a 10 speed. My 10 speed freewheel is still enroute from China. If I keep this kit I will probably break many more covers with a 10 speed.

05silgto   1 mW

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Re: Motor cover split around freewheel while pedaling.

Post by 05silgto » Jul 01 2020 4:43pm

AngryBob wrote:
Jul 01 2020 6:28am
Yes, there have been several cases of this happening. Would not call it common, but it in not unknown.

Unfortunately, over half of them used externally hosted pictures which are no longer visible as the hosting site closed down. So detailed analysis is impossible.

Difficult to see exactly what is happening in your photos. Do not see an obvious crack or breakage in motor cover, as has been present in most of the viewable photos I have seen.

What is the brand name or designation on the motor itself? Name of the seller is virtually useless, they did not make the motor itself.

You should get a free replacement, but such is the nature of this business. That seller can simply close the shop and start back up with a new name. If you used a credit card or Paypal start a dispute IMMEDIATELY. Do not close the dispute until replacement parts or refund have been received by you.
Not sure what the name or the designation of the motor is, maybe somebody can tell me https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fat-E-bike-Con ... 8Ih59QyXuQ
that way I can get the motor cover from somebody else if it comes to that.

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Re: Motor cover split around freewheel while pedaling.

Post by Balmorhea » Jul 01 2020 7:28pm

05silgto wrote:
Jul 01 2020 3:59pm
Sounds like the best choice is to return the kit and look for one that comes with a cassette hub.
I was only using a 7 speed when it broke and my bike is a 10 speed. My 10 speed freewheel is still enroute from China. If I keep this kit I will probably break many more covers with a 10 speed.
The farther out on the freewheel the chain engages, the larger the bending moment that's trying to tear the mounting thread out of the motor side cover. So yes, an 8/9/10 speed freewheel would be a little more likely to fall than a 7.

Depending on the placement of bearing supports, a cassette version may be equally likely to fail the same way.

markz   100 GW

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Re: Motor cover split around freewheel while pedaling.

Post by markz » Jul 01 2020 7:38pm

Getting a new drive side cover plate from the vendor will be doubtful as the seller wouldnt have it.
How would you go about even getting a cover plate that you know fits, thats an issue too.
You need to start the process in getting your money back, ebay, paypal and credit card, do it by the book, make sure its through ebay messages, and paypal messages.

05silgto   1 mW

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Re: Motor cover split around freewheel while pedaling.

Post by 05silgto » Jul 01 2020 9:01pm

markz wrote:
Jul 01 2020 7:38pm
Getting a new drive side cover plate from the vendor will be doubtful as the seller wouldnt have it.
How would you go about even getting a cover plate that you know fits, thats an issue too.
You need to start the process in getting your money back, ebay, paypal and credit card, do it by the book, make sure its through ebay messages, and paypal messages.
I have already started the process by submitting a claim through ebay money back guarantee for a product that was defective/not as described and through my bank by disputing the charge. Shipping was $100 when I purchased the kit which is also refunded under the money back guarantee. However, if the return shipping is actually $100 I somewhat doubt the seller would want to pay that for a damaged unit so I'm expecting to end up with the motor. Now I just need to figure out how I can remove a freewheel with a broken motor. Planning to use epoxy to fix crack so I can remove freewheel without spinning the hub.

Balmorhea   10 kW

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Re: Motor cover split around freewheel while pedaling.

Post by Balmorhea » Jul 01 2020 9:30pm

05silgto wrote:
Jul 01 2020 9:01pm
Planning to use epoxy to fix crack so I can remove freewheel without spinning the hub.
That probably won't work. I expect you'll have to cut flats onto the broken-out section and hold it in a vise.

markz   100 GW

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Re: Motor cover split around freewheel while pedaling.

Post by markz » Jul 01 2020 9:59pm

Start googling how they repair engine blocks, I remember I took a cyclinder head to a guy who explained how they drill the cracks out and do their magic, I had too many cracks in the cyl head. The problem being with the cover plate is the torque and stress, welding it may work for awhile, could maybe even add plate to reinforce but then how do you balance it all. Maybe someone in your city has a burnt hub and their cover fits yours.
https://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bic ... lates.html
No dimensional drawings or schematics. Geared motors are smaller.

05silgto   1 mW

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Re: Motor cover split around freewheel while pedaling.

Post by 05silgto » Jul 01 2020 10:23pm

markz wrote:
Jul 01 2020 9:59pm
Start googling how they repair engine blocks, I remember I took a cyclinder head to a guy who explained how they drill the cracks out and do their magic, I had too many cracks in the cyl head. The problem being with the cover plate is the torque and stress, welding it may work for awhile, could maybe even add plate to reinforce but then how do you balance it all. Maybe someone in your city has a burnt hub and their cover fits yours.
https://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bic ... lates.html
No dimensional drawings or schematics. Geared motors are smaller.
If you google 9c hub motor and click images you get a bunch of images of motors that look just like mine. This appears to be the same motor sold by many ebay sellers. In theory I should be able to contact any vendor that sells this motor and ask to purchase a replacement cover.

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Re: Motor cover split around freewheel while pedaling.

Post by markz » Jul 01 2020 10:52pm

05silgto wrote:
Jul 01 2020 10:23pm
In theory I should be able to contact any vendor that sells this motor and ask to purchase a replacement cover.
I do not know ebay sellers work like that, I bet they drop ship and they wouldnt have any cover plates laying around, and I'd bet the ebay seller would have a hard time getting it from yet another middle middle man, yes 2 middle's

05silgto   1 mW

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Re: Motor cover split around freewheel while pedaling.

Post by 05silgto » Jul 01 2020 11:40pm

markz wrote:
Jul 01 2020 10:52pm
05silgto wrote:
Jul 01 2020 10:23pm
In theory I should be able to contact any vendor that sells this motor and ask to purchase a replacement cover.
I do not know ebay sellers work like that, I bet they drop ship and they wouldnt have any cover plates laying around, and I'd bet the ebay seller would have a hard time getting it from yet another middle middle man, yes 2 middle's
Well, when I say vendors, I'm not talking about just ebay. The company I bought this from "csc" has a page on ebay, amazon, aliexpress,etc, along with there own website. Other vendors for ebike kits sell similar looking motors so It should be easy to go through one of them if needed.
The seller who sold me this kit is offering me a replacement cover but they are trying to make me pay $40 for shipping. I bought this less than a month ago so it shouldn't have failed so quickly. They have given me various reasons why its my fault it broke ranging from Improper installation to I shouldn't pedal on hills. Here is a quote from the last email I received from them today.

"You have clearly told us in the message that the motor is damaged due to stepping on the pedal. Your pedals and flywheel are not included in our kit, so it is not our responsibility to install and use the flywheel and pedals. In addition, frankly, you are the first person to appear like this. We have sold more than a thousand pieces of electric conversion kits, why don't others have problems like you?"

So yeah, that is what I'm having to deal with.

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Re: Motor cover split around freewheel while pedaling.

Post by wturber » Jul 02 2020 1:27am

05silgto wrote:
Jul 01 2020 10:23pm

If you google 9c hub motor and click images you get a bunch of images of motors that look just like mine. This appears to be the same motor sold by many ebay sellers. In theory I should be able to contact any vendor that sells this motor and ask to purchase a replacement cover.
That is you best bet. I'd wager that your epoxy scheme won't work. I doubt there is enough surface area to bond to. And the only epoxy likely to hold would be something fairly expensive like 3M DP 420.

Please note in this video that the bonded area is stressed in sheer and there is a lot of surface area. Lots of bonded surface area is what you generally want if you are trying to use an epoxy in a structural scheme of some kind.

I've used two toughened epoxies (West Systems G-Flex 650 and Brampton Pro-Fix 20/20) and JB Weld running similar tests and neither of them worked as well as what we see here from DP 420.

"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Motor cover split around freewheel while pedaling.

Post by dogman dan » Jul 02 2020 5:45am

That motor is designed for you to pedal with without power all you want. They suck with that reply. The covers don't normally break unless defective. Oh sure, maybe it breaks in a few years if you pedal a lot, but not in a few weeks. Its clearly defective.

They wanted you to fork over 40 bucks to ship a cover. Now they will pay a full refund. Ha ha.

All you need to buy now is a motor only, but from some other source. Covers might swap, or not. Small variations in the same motor everybody makes can exist.

markz   100 GW

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Re: Motor cover split around freewheel while pedaling.

Post by markz » Jul 02 2020 12:33pm

I just heard on YT on a vloggers channel (Rossman) that paypal is now gouging sellers with a non-refundable $70 fee that is paid when the item is purchased and returned. The video I saw was 4 or 6 months old. The gist of the video is that they are losing market share because there are other vendors out there doing the same thing. ebay maybe or has or whatever other options, I use paypal. Rossman listed off a dozen optional payment methods.

I have no idea how the ebay sellers, or larger resellers work in terms of spare parts they have, or have access too, so I was just guessing. I think that was clear. There is a difference between a basement dweller selling a few kits a month, and someone who's garage is full of kit boxes and the larger resellers who buy the generic motors. Some would have access to the manufacturer, like a few here dealing with MXUS factory in China who sold 100's

05silgto   1 mW

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Re: Motor cover split around freewheel while pedaling.

Post by 05silgto » Jul 02 2020 8:59pm

I did find this.
https://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bic ... cover.html
The diameter of the cover seems to be the same along with the bolt pattern. This one comes with a cassette instead of a free-hub which could be nice since the bike originally had a cassette.
The seller is now not only trying to get me to pay for shipping, but he is now blackmailing me to change my feedback I left him to positive and drop my return claim otherwise he won't send me a replacement cover. If he sends me a replacement cover it looks like its gonna take over a month for it to arrive based on his shipping of choice. I have 5 courses in the fall so by then I'll lose my majority of time to ride.
So, I can either order this cover now, hope it fits and enjoy some riding time until the 21st which is my deadline to have ebay step in and investigate to force a return. Or I can hope it fits not return the product and see if my bank disputes the transaction since I've already reported it.

markz   100 GW

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Re: Motor cover split around freewheel while pedaling.

Post by markz » Jul 02 2020 10:47pm

Ya you have to play the returning item / ebay feedback game.
Maybe you showed your cards too early by giving a negative feedback so soon, which is understandable I guess.
You have to use your leverage as a buyer to your advantage, so there is a whole new game to be played with you and the seller now.
More of a bag of worms to open up
A bigger maze to navigate

edit - Sellers usually care about getting that positive review, but you already posted a negative one. Can you change it, if you can, how many times can you change it, maybe tell the seller you will change it when you receive the item.
Man you got a jigsaw puzzle to unravel now with the seller.

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Re: Motor cover split around freewheel while pedaling.

Post by Returnformer » Jul 02 2020 11:55pm

no puzzle, its simple. if you drop the return and change the feedback you lose all leverage. tell the seller you wont do it until you have the new plate in hand, and if he wants it changed sooner then he better send it faster, otherwise youll just return it. which ebay will most likely let you do, they usually side with the buyer unless its obvious the buyer is lying or something. he has no leverage to blackmail you. hes trying to make you think he can in order to get you to drop the return etc and thereby lose YOUR leverage, but right now the leverage is all yours.

05silgto   1 mW

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Re: Motor cover split around freewheel while pedaling.

Post by 05silgto » Jul 03 2020 12:21am

Returnformer wrote:
Jul 02 2020 11:55pm
no puzzle, its simple. if you drop the return and change the feedback you lose all leverage. tell the seller you wont do it until you have the new plate in hand, and if he wants it changed sooner then he better send it faster, otherwise youll just return it. which ebay will most likely let you do, they usually side with the buyer unless its obvious the buyer is lying or something. he has no leverage to blackmail you. hes trying to make you think he can in order to get you to drop the return etc and thereby lose YOUR leverage, but right now the leverage is all yours.
I agree completely and have no plans of cooperating with him. I overpaid for this kit in order to get an option with faster shipping and now he wants to send me a replacement cover with the slowest shipping option and make me pay for it. I'll return it and buy a similar kit for less and with faster shipping if I need to. I'm not gonna be blackmailed into giving a good review for a seller that has been nothing but difficult and rude to work with.

Returnformer   100 mW

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Re: Motor cover split around freewheel while pedaling.

Post by Returnformer » Jul 03 2020 1:42am

good. stick it to him.

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Re: Motor cover split around freewheel while pedaling.

Post by 999zip999 » Jul 03 2020 1:56pm

Where you live. If near by you can bring cover plate and see if you can match it as there are many different types. So Cal between la and San Diego.

05silgto   1 mW

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Re: Motor cover split around freewheel while pedaling.

Post by 05silgto » Jul 03 2020 10:40pm

999zip999 wrote:
Jul 03 2020 1:56pm
Where you live. If near by you can bring cover plate and see if you can match it as there are many different types. So Cal between la and San Diego.
I live in Texas but I appreciate the offer. I used epoxy to put the cover back together for now. Put it in the lowest gear to reduce tension and just went on a 20min. bike ride. I mostly used power to reduce stress and seems to work for now. I already ordered a Mxus side cover and it should be here in 3-5 days so fingers crossed it fits.

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