Nickel Strip vs Solder (Tinned) Woven Copper Busbars

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
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bobbill   1 W

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Nickel Strip vs Solder (Tinned) Woven Copper Busbars

Post by bobbill » Jun 27 2018 3:50am

Comments?
Last edited by bobbill on Jun 27 2018 6:49pm, edited 1 time in total.

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flippy   1 MW

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Re: Nickel Strip vs Solder Covered Woven Copper Busbars

Post by flippy » Jun 27 2018 7:15am

nickel strip all the way. woven crap gets hot spots, breaks and you get cascading failiure. also: dont mix metals if you dont have to.
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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: Nickel Strip vs Solder Covered Woven Copper Busbars

Post by spinningmagnets » Jun 27 2018 8:32am

The biggest reasons (IMHO) to use copper is either...they are free, or...you need high current from high-amp cells. In either of those cases I'd be reluctant to use woven copper braid. I'm not saying its bad, I just haven't seen enough builds with them to feel confident that they would not have any problems.

The downsides of nickel are that...they are expensive, and...they are best when drawing low amps per cell. If a nickel-bus pack was large enough that the pack amps were high, I'd overlay the series strips with soldered copper wire.

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flippy   1 MW

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Re: Nickel Strip vs Solder Covered Woven Copper Busbars

Post by flippy » Jun 27 2018 8:52am

i would just design the pack differently so you have less current per series strip, wider packs are generally better then longer ones.
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bobbill   1 W

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Re: Nickel Strip vs Solder Covered Woven Copper Busbars

Post by bobbill » Jun 27 2018 2:41pm

First, Flippy and Spinning magnets thanks, I have read your input in past and know you know your stuff...

Second, what I did was acquire one of those kits from Vruzend, an easy build, with the interlocking plastic ends for the cells (I know squat), then I learned the strips are not nickel but SS, so I bought some nickel and some woven copper ground "wire" covered in lead solder or tinned...copper vs nickel conduction sort of thing...

All for a 10s3P 36v pack...it is about a foot long. Was thinking of cutting individual pcs of the mesh to match the strips...and use the nickel for the parallel contacts...and nut them down like the strips...

Then I remembered this site, and you guy's advice, so before I did another dumb thing, asked here.

I am leaning now to using the nickel strip, cut to size, even if far less conductive, cuz the rig is small. Now am thinking of squaring the pack a bit...but will think on it. All to do 14 quiet miles on my we Xootr, 20-inch folder...I really only need to get back up hill to house, about a kilometer, if that.

Am slow convert form former gas rig...which was flawless, but noisy.

Thanks again.
Last edited by bobbill on Jun 27 2018 6:50pm, edited 2 times in total.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Nickel Strip vs Solder Covered Woven Copper Busbars

Post by fechter » Jun 27 2018 2:55pm

If all the connections are bolted, you could use solid copper. I have used braided copper for things in the past but it's hard to know the equivalent wire gauge. The main thing is to have enough cross sectional area to carry the current so things don't heat up. As long as nothing gets warm, it won't really matter which one you use. Long term reliability is also a factor. Stainless steel is good in this respect.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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flippy   1 MW

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Re: Nickel Strip vs Solder Covered Woven Copper Busbars

Post by flippy » Jun 28 2018 12:07am

bobbill wrote:
Jun 27 2018 2:41pm
First, Flippy and Spinning magnets thanks, I have read your input in past and know you know your stuff...

Second, what I did was acquire one of those kits from Vruzend,
thanks, but i litteraly stopped reading there. that stuff is utter crap. never ever use that shit in a mobile application. or even better: never use it at all.
Lithium beats liquid dinosaurs.

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bobbill   1 W

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Re: Nickel Strip vs Solder (Tinned) Woven Copper Busbars

Post by bobbill » Jun 28 2018 4:31am

Am new at this and study up first...but search is "iffy."

Only using the plastic and inserts of the kit, as I have them and simple.

Learning as we go. The kit's bus bars are SS, which I found out later and more or less a waste of time, for me. Why I acquired the copper and nickel material as replacements and asked about them here.

Small project, so I was not overly concerned, but anal enough to try to be as efficient with what I have. Still appreciate you response and you opinion.

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Nickel Strip vs Solder Covered Woven Copper Busbars

Post by Chalo » Jun 28 2018 10:14am

bobbill wrote:
Jun 27 2018 2:41pm
Am slow convert form former gas rig...which was flawless, but noisy.
"Flawless", you say.

I never smelled one of those things that I would call flawless.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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bobbill   1 W

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Re: Nickel Strip vs Solder (Tinned) Woven Copper Busbars

Post by bobbill » Jun 28 2018 10:38am

Chalo, I know what you mean...one of the reasons am here fooling with crazy cells etc.

Thing ran perfect for 5-10 years...was as simple as can be but loudish and stinky...I could post a pic, I would...it really is a nice bicycle...

On topic. Am finally concluding the rig I am building will do fine with nickel, being low key etc, so will proceed with the nickel strips for each series connection, and maybe use the ss strips for parallels...

I def need more experience, but just a simple build.

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bobbill   1 W

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Re: Nickel Strip vs Solder (Tinned) Woven Copper Busbars

Post by bobbill » Jun 29 2018 9:01am

BTW "flippy," don't pooh-pooh the cellholder/placeholder stuff...has some shortcomings, but with some tweaks, makes building a b-pack simple and, generally speaking, very minimal soldiering. Try one out...later versions...

My problem with them was the difference in material components compared to what I read here and in the book by Toll, which is very good, but deserves some tweaks - for newbie readers who did not take physics etc in school or who have not dealt with electronics for a bit.

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flippy   1 MW

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Re: Nickel Strip vs Solder (Tinned) Woven Copper Busbars

Post by flippy » Jun 29 2018 9:14am

bobbill wrote:
Jun 29 2018 9:01am
BTW "flippy," don't pooh-pooh the cellholder/placeholder stuff...has some shortcomings,
shortcomings as in stupid high prices, denting the cells, very poor contact pressure, little surface area, disconnecting cells due to movement from heat, wear and shocks just to name a few from the top of my head....

there is no reason at all to recommend a system built on plastic friction, especially not in a device that moves.
Lithium beats liquid dinosaurs.

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bobbill   1 W

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Re: Nickel Strip vs Solder (Tinned) Woven Copper Busbars

Post by bobbill » Jun 29 2018 9:19am

Gee, all that? Seriously, looked over lots of reviews, never read about dents and loose cells...every time I turn around, it is something else, maybe I should get the other ones...no tops etc and just spot-weld...

Appreciate it. Might just do different plastic things. I do have a rule..."Simple is best in the beginning and always later..." Guess the red/blue thingy gets complicated. Now will try the black ones, if I can procure faster.

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Re: Nickel Strip vs Solder (Tinned) Woven Copper Busbars

Post by docw009 » Jun 29 2018 10:55am

I've seen two threads where owners have found at least one cell not making contact in a Vruzend group, Doesn't seem all that bad until you realize when one cell floats away, you lose 25% and 33% of the rated AH for a 4P and 3P battery. Those intermittent groups quickly unbalance, as they drain faster. The whole pack is screwed up after two or three usages. At least you can recover it.

People who are fairly careful and then mount their batteries so they don't get shaken seem to do OK though. If your 10S-3P is almost a foot long, that's kind of bulky.

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bobbill   1 W

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Re: Nickel Strip vs Solder (Tinned) Woven Copper Busbars

Post by bobbill » Jun 29 2018 11:01am

Thanks...have similar visions...will likely do as I said, even if it takes long due to slow shipping, and better order before tariffs are imposed.

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flippy   1 MW

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Re: Nickel Strip vs Solder (Tinned) Woven Copper Busbars

Post by flippy » Jun 29 2018 1:01pm

i got a customer that came to me to fix his battery pack. he had 300 GA cells in a vruzend holder pack (costed a pretty penny) and i had to toss about 60 of those cells because they had massive dents. had to tell the guy he needed to spend another 300 bucks to buy new cells to replace the dented ones because they were unsafe and i cant weld on concave terminals.
Lithium beats liquid dinosaurs.

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