ENNOID-BMS for 48V to 400V lithium-ion battery pack

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
pezman   100 µW

100 µW
Posts: 7
Joined: Jul 08 2019 3:58pm

Re: BMS for 48V to 400V lithium-ion battery pack

Post by pezman » Aug 12 2019 9:50am

That would be great,
I'm struggeling with the MCU.sch. I cannot get the STM32F303 symbol to load. And if i try to replace it, it will not connect to correct pins.
Is there a file missing or a library missing for this?

Code: Select all

Symbol “STM32F303CCTx-MCU_ST_STM32” not found in library “BMS-Master-rescue”

ENNOID   100 W

100 W
Posts: 137
Joined: Dec 01 2017 3:26pm
Location: Quebec
Contact:

Re: BMS for 48V to 400V lithium-ion battery pack

Post by ENNOID » Aug 12 2019 10:11am

I updated the BOM in the repo.

For the STM32 in kicad not showing up, that is strange. Should automatically load with rescue. If not, try deleting rescue file & reload project again!
https://www.ennoid.me/

You can use my referral link to get 1,500 free Supercharger km on a new Tesla: https://ts.la/kevin88384

Open source R&D isn't free, you can help me out building next stuff by contributing:
https://www.paypal.me/kevindionne

pezman   100 µW

100 µW
Posts: 7
Joined: Jul 08 2019 3:58pm

Re: BMS for 48V to 400V lithium-ion battery pack

Post by pezman » Aug 12 2019 10:38am

Thanks for the BOM
I got it to work.
Manually added the rescue lib

pezman   100 µW

100 µW
Posts: 7
Joined: Jul 08 2019 3:58pm

Re: BMS for 48V to 400V lithium-ion battery pack

Post by pezman » Aug 12 2019 4:21pm

The bom on github for master is missing xls file

ENNOID   100 W

100 W
Posts: 137
Joined: Dec 01 2017 3:26pm
Location: Quebec
Contact:

Re: BMS for 48V to 400V lithium-ion battery pack

Post by ENNOID » Aug 13 2019 7:33am

Should be ok now.
https://www.ennoid.me/

You can use my referral link to get 1,500 free Supercharger km on a new Tesla: https://ts.la/kevin88384

Open source R&D isn't free, you can help me out building next stuff by contributing:
https://www.paypal.me/kevindionne

ENNOID   100 W

100 W
Posts: 137
Joined: Dec 01 2017 3:26pm
Location: Quebec
Contact:

Re: ENNOID-BMS for 48V to 400V lithium-ion battery pack

Post by ENNOID » Aug 15 2019 9:51am

I created a small user manual/datasheet to help understand the BMS pinout & functions. Work in progress

https://github.com/EnnoidMe/ENNOID-BMS/ ... asheet.pdf
Last edited by ENNOID on Sep 28 2019 8:13am, edited 2 times in total.
https://www.ennoid.me/

You can use my referral link to get 1,500 free Supercharger km on a new Tesla: https://ts.la/kevin88384

Open source R&D isn't free, you can help me out building next stuff by contributing:
https://www.paypal.me/kevindionne

john61ct   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3051
Joined: Dec 18 2018 2:06pm

Re: ENNOID-BMS for 48V to 400V lithium-ion battery pack

Post by john61ct » Aug 15 2019 12:09pm

All this is way over my pay grade, but on behalf of humanity, and the DC electrics community, thank you so much for doing this work as FOSS & open hardware.


ENNOID   100 W

100 W
Posts: 137
Joined: Dec 01 2017 3:26pm
Location: Quebec
Contact:

Re: ENNOID-BMS for 48V to 400V lithium-ion battery pack

Post by ENNOID » Aug 16 2019 10:09am

Thanks for your support john61ct. I Appreciate.

I'm not alone into this thought, most work has been done by Dany Bokma who spent a lot of time in developping DieBieMS firmware/hardware.

I combined many parts from different existing open source projects to build ENNOID-BMS, a high voltage & high current BMS with isolation between control & power stage.

For example, voltage & current sense circuits in ENNOID-BMS were taken from the open source Axiom controller.
Interface for ENNOID-BMS tool is based on the VESC tool from Benjamin Vedder.

All this is very inspiring imo. I think we will soon have a complete open source hardware ecosystem for EV which is as good as existing commercial products and way more customizable/flexible.
https://www.ennoid.me/

You can use my referral link to get 1,500 free Supercharger km on a new Tesla: https://ts.la/kevin88384

Open source R&D isn't free, you can help me out building next stuff by contributing:
https://www.paypal.me/kevindionne

john61ct   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3051
Joined: Dec 18 2018 2:06pm

Re: ENNOID-BMS for 48V to 400V lithium-ion battery pack

Post by john61ct » Aug 16 2019 12:44pm

Yes IMO it really takes community activity for a project to become sustainable long term, I'm sure we'll see more in coming years.

And let's not forget Fraunhofer IISB in Germany FoxBMS is commendable project, even if beyond the hobbyist arena, great ideas, components and architecture example there.

Andrewol   10 W

10 W
Posts: 91
Joined: Aug 04 2018 9:19am

Re: ENNOID-BMS for 48V to 400V lithium-ion battery pack

Post by Andrewol » Aug 16 2019 2:16pm

Is it necessary to discharge overcharged cells during balancing? Perhaps better to share the current with undercharged ones via parallel connection. But there have to be some kind of relays between cells which can act as fuses. Or share the current with neighboring cells in sequential order untill all cells are equal current.

john61ct   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3051
Joined: Dec 18 2018 2:06pm

Re: ENNOID-BMS for 48V to 400V lithium-ion battery pack

Post by john61ct » Aug 16 2019 5:20pm

Andrewol wrote:Is it necessary to discharge overcharged cells during balancing?
No, there are several other methodologies, but this one "bleeding" aka passive or resistive, is implemented on 99.99% of the BMSs and balancing chargers.

_____
> Perhaps better to share the current with undercharged ones via parallel connection.

aka "capacitive", "charge shuttling" and "active charge-transfer balancing"

good in theory, but hard (perhaps expensive?) to implement well in practice

The "non-protective BMS" dedicated balancing gadgets often go this way.

Actual net energy saved is minimal, perhaps relevant in an off-grid solar-only setup

_____
The third type is "shunt based" apparently Zephyer BMS implements that well.

ENNOID   100 W

100 W
Posts: 137
Joined: Dec 01 2017 3:26pm
Location: Quebec
Contact:

Re: ENNOID-BMS for 48V to 400V lithium-ion battery pack

Post by ENNOID » Aug 16 2019 10:44pm

Concerning FoxBMS, It has many more fancy stuff than my BMS, but also at least twice as many components & at least twice as expensive. (Probably 3 to 4 times... maybe even more). Not only high voltage sections are isolated from each other, but everything. Redundancy is also everywhere with 2 MCU & 2 monitoring circuits. Is it a better approach? Depends, maybe for a research program or for a very big & complex battery system, but for a small or medium battery packs in an electric vehicle or an energy storage system at home, it is simply overkill.

That is why I'm developing a BMS which has everything to be functional without being too complex & too expensive.
https://www.ennoid.me/

You can use my referral link to get 1,500 free Supercharger km on a new Tesla: https://ts.la/kevin88384

Open source R&D isn't free, you can help me out building next stuff by contributing:
https://www.paypal.me/kevindionne

Ohms_Cousin   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 11
Joined: Aug 17 2019 2:25am

Re: ENNOID-BMS for 48V to 400V lithium-ion battery pack

Post by Ohms_Cousin » Aug 17 2019 2:30am

Nice project here !

I am curious though as to why 12S and not 14S? Is it a massive undertaking to have a 14S version ? maybe some technical limit in the parts used?

*Edit* Ahhh, I see, the IC is the limiting factor. Any idea of when the newer IC will be available so it can go all the way to 18S ?
Last edited by Ohms_Cousin on Aug 17 2019 5:48am, edited 1 time in total.

Andrewol   10 W

10 W
Posts: 91
Joined: Aug 04 2018 9:19am

Re: ENNOID-BMS for 48V to 400V lithium-ion battery pack

Post by Andrewol » Aug 17 2019 3:54am

Where to find the cost for 21S lion? On githud only 2 files available

ENNOID   100 W

100 W
Posts: 137
Joined: Dec 01 2017 3:26pm
Location: Quebec
Contact:

Re: ENNOID-BMS for 48V to 400V lithium-ion battery pack

Post by ENNOID » Aug 17 2019 7:13am

For 21S, you would need 2 slaves boards with the actual slave IC LTC6811 and you could then go up to 24S.

For 18S or 15S slaves, there exist LTC6812 & LTC6813 IC. The driver is not coded yet for ENNOID-BMS. I received some request from a customer last week to develop a driver & slave board. other problem is related to the availability of those IC...still very limited a the moment . Also, I will need a bigger 3d printer if I want to fit a 18S10P into a single battery module similar to what I have done so far with actual 12S10P.

I might jump on that project once every other actual production issues will be solved.
https://www.ennoid.me/

You can use my referral link to get 1,500 free Supercharger km on a new Tesla: https://ts.la/kevin88384

Open source R&D isn't free, you can help me out building next stuff by contributing:
https://www.paypal.me/kevindionne

john61ct   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3051
Joined: Dec 18 2018 2:06pm

Re: ENNOID-BMS for 48V to 400V lithium-ion battery pack

Post by john61ct » Aug 17 2019 11:24am

So what voltage ranges are **currently** supported? Both LFP and the more usual chemistries?

Are the setpoints adjustable without getting into source code, including when the balancing starts kicking in?

What is the balance rate?

Are the charge and discharge buss protected separately?

Sorry if this is all summarized somewhere, link would be appreciated.

ENNOID   100 W

100 W
Posts: 137
Joined: Dec 01 2017 3:26pm
Location: Quebec
Contact:

Re: ENNOID-BMS for 48V to 400V lithium-ion battery pack

Post by ENNOID » Aug 17 2019 11:52am

Many settings are available without doing any coding.
You can check by yourself playing with the settings into the V0.30 app. https://github.com/EnnoidMe/ENNOID-BMS-Tool/releases
Many things I haven't personally tested yet.

But for your specific questions:
balance threshold.png
balance threshold.png (69.61 KiB) Viewed 1730 times
cell type.png
cell type.png (86.41 KiB) Viewed 1730 times
there is separate contactor outputs for charge & discharge.

Be patient, details will follow in the operating manual
https://www.ennoid.me/

You can use my referral link to get 1,500 free Supercharger km on a new Tesla: https://ts.la/kevin88384

Open source R&D isn't free, you can help me out building next stuff by contributing:
https://www.paypal.me/kevindionne

john61ct   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3051
Joined: Dec 18 2018 2:06pm

Re: ENNOID-BMS for 48V to 400V lithium-ion battery pack

Post by john61ct » Aug 17 2019 1:31pm

I am a patient fellow, but suggest a summary datasheet should be prioritized for those interested in the project, but not going to set up a Windows machine just to get basic info.

User avatar
flippy   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1632
Joined: Aug 12 2015 3:07pm

Re: ENNOID-BMS for 48V to 400V lithium-ion battery pack

Post by flippy » Aug 17 2019 2:40pm

john61ct wrote:
Aug 17 2019 1:31pm
I am a patient fellow, but suggest a summary datasheet should be prioritized for those interested in the project, but not going to set up a Windows machine just to get basic info.
apple market share is less then 10 percent, so its reasonable to assume that most users are windows based and expecting mac specific tools for this highly specific product not a economically thing to put effort into.
Andrewol wrote:
Aug 16 2019 2:16pm
Is it necessary to discharge overcharged cells during balancing? Perhaps better to share the current with undercharged ones via parallel connection. But there have to be some kind of relays between cells which can act as fuses. Or share the current with neighboring cells in sequential order untill all cells are equal current.
the BQ76 chip from TI used in the tesla batteries have active balancing. but that chip alone is 10 bucks a piece. add the active balancing hardware and you are looking at a pricy piece of kit, just one you can use up to a 700V battery.
still, if you have a good battery you dont need active balancing. and saving a bunch of money on cheap cells to then spend a lot more on a active balancing bms is just plain stupid.
Lithium beats liquid dinosaurs.

ENNOID   100 W

100 W
Posts: 137
Joined: Dec 01 2017 3:26pm
Location: Quebec
Contact:

Re: ENNOID-BMS for 48V to 400V lithium-ion battery pack

Post by ENNOID » Aug 17 2019 2:58pm

Yeah, you are right, I have been cheating all that time.. I neglected pushing a .deb or linux version...
Last edited by ENNOID on Aug 17 2019 4:37pm, edited 2 times in total.
https://www.ennoid.me/

You can use my referral link to get 1,500 free Supercharger km on a new Tesla: https://ts.la/kevin88384

Open source R&D isn't free, you can help me out building next stuff by contributing:
https://www.paypal.me/kevindionne

john61ct   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3051
Joined: Dec 18 2018 2:06pm

Re: ENNOID-BMS for 48V to 400V lithium-ion battery pack

Post by john61ct » Aug 17 2019 3:45pm


flippy wrote:apple market share is less then 10 percent, so its reasonable to assume that most users are windows based and expecting mac specific tools for this highly specific product not a economically thing to put effort into.
Very confused, who mentioned Apple?

User avatar
flippy   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1632
Joined: Aug 12 2015 3:07pm

Re: ENNOID-BMS for 48V to 400V lithium-ion battery pack

Post by flippy » Aug 17 2019 4:21pm

john61ct wrote:
Aug 17 2019 3:45pm
flippy wrote:apple market share is less then 10 percent, so its reasonable to assume that most users are windows based and expecting mac specific tools for this highly specific product not a economically thing to put effort into.
Very confused, who mentioned Apple?
because any linux user knows their market share is less then 1 percent and knows to just use wine or another VM instead of complaining.
Lithium beats liquid dinosaurs.

john61ct   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3051
Joined: Dec 18 2018 2:06pm

Re: ENNOID-BMS for 48V to 400V lithium-ion battery pack

Post by john61ct » Aug 17 2019 4:34pm

I made no complaint, nor did I say anything about Linux.

Simply suggested that having the information consolidated in a readable format would be better than requiring that people download software to figure things out.

Called trying to be helpful.

ENNOID   100 W

100 W
Posts: 137
Joined: Dec 01 2017 3:26pm
Location: Quebec
Contact:

Re: ENNOID-BMS for 48V to 400V lithium-ion battery pack

Post by ENNOID » Aug 17 2019 4:38pm

I posted a link maybe 2 days ago on this thread about a preliminary operating manual/datasheet. Still a work in progress

https://github.com/EnnoidMe/ENNOID-BMS/ ... asheet.pdf
Last edited by ENNOID on Sep 28 2019 8:13am, edited 2 times in total.
https://www.ennoid.me/

You can use my referral link to get 1,500 free Supercharger km on a new Tesla: https://ts.la/kevin88384

Open source R&D isn't free, you can help me out building next stuff by contributing:
https://www.paypal.me/kevindionne

john61ct   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3051
Joined: Dec 18 2018 2:06pm

Re: ENNOID-BMS for 48V to 400V lithium-ion battery pack

Post by john61ct » Aug 17 2019 5:01pm

Yes, got it, great start thanks. Sorry for the derail

Post Reply