Can a ping 48v15ah do two motors? And fullriver packs?

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
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motomech   1 GW

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Re: Can a ping 48v15ah do two motors? And fullriver packs?

Post by motomech » Apr 29 2017 11:47pm

I like the elegant simplicity of your 2wd approach/philosophy.
The key to this simplest approach is the throttle set-up. I have thumb inside of a left-side, half-twist;
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It's very natural and intuitive. Although, most of the time, I'm running the rear(main)motor w/ the PAS, so I'm only using the thumb on occassion to activate the frt. motor.
I would like your rig as a mid drive also (maybe a 2 speed xiongda on front - bit heavy tho), with a focus on relieving stress on the chain transmission for torquey starts and hills (favouring the low gear of the XD).
Most hub motors on the street are best served by using a "middle-of-the-road" mid-speed range, I my case both are 260RPM @ 36 Volts. Running a single motor on 46V LiPoly, top speed is around 22 mph and it will climb most hills, although some slowly and needing all the help my legs can provide. Running both motors, top speed increases to 25-26MPH and any hill can be climbed w/out slowing down much at all. So the performance envelope has been "widened"(something a mid-drive will do over a single hub). So my performance goals are met, while retaining the simplisity and low maintenance of a hub motor.

I do like KISS tho. Get home, park bike, connect 1 charger to 1 big battery, relax. Anything too fiddly is a dis-incentive to using the bike over the car. simplicity is part ofthe bikes appeal.
If one is using "plug and play" style packs, plugging in 2 is hardly complicating anything.

I can see merit in 2 identical batteries tho. One precharged spare third battery can be swapped to either motor.
My main pack is too large to remove, but my smaller "aux" is easily swapped and i have 2 of those;
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20Ah pack in the frame bag, 5Ah pack is in tube under frame down-tube.
Motomech


'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100H 201 frt. mounted, 14S Multistar LiPoly, elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A, Crazy Bobs on Alex DM32's 21 to 22 MPH. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=28151&p=1373714&hilit=Idrive#p13737

cycleops612   10 kW

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Posts: 585
Joined: May 31 2015 3:45pm
Location: Sydney Australia, Me: 70kg/154lb. 350w, 22kg ex battery, 24 speed axial mid-drive Bofeili MTB.

Re: Can a ping 48v15ah do two motors? And fullriver packs?

Post by cycleops612 » Apr 30 2017 8:32am

motomech wrote:
I like the elegant simplicity of your 2wd approach/philosophy.
The key to this simplest approach is the throttle set-up. I have thumb inside of a left-side, half-twist;
100_0028.JPG
100_0029.JPG
It's very natural and intuitive. Although, most of the time, I'm running the rear(main)motor w/ the PAS, so I'm only using the thumb on occassion to activate the frt. motor.
I would like your rig as a mid drive also (maybe a 2 speed xiongda on front - bit heavy tho), with a focus on relieving stress on the chain transmission for torquey starts and hills (favouring the low gear of the XD).
Most hub motors on the street are best served by using a "middle-of-the-road" mid-speed range, I my case both are 260RPM @ 36 Volts. Running a single motor on 46V LiPoly, top speed is around 22 mph and it will climb most hills, although some slowly and needing all the help my legs can provide. Running both motors, top speed increases to 25-26MPH and any hill can be climbed w/out slowing down much at all. So the performance envelope has been "widened"(something a mid-drive will do over a single hub). So my performance goals are met, while retaining the simplisity and low maintenance of a hub motor.

I do like KISS tho. Get home, park bike, connect 1 charger to 1 big battery, relax. Anything too fiddly is a dis-incentive to using the bike over the car. simplicity is part ofthe bikes appeal.
If one is using "plug and play" style packs, plugging in 2 is hardly complicating anything.

I can see merit in 2 identical batteries tho. One precharged spare third battery can be swapped to either motor.
My main pack is too large to remove, but my smaller "aux" is easily swapped and i have 2 of those;
100_0073.JPG
20Ah pack in the frame bag, 5Ah pack is in tube under frame down-tube.
ta for sharing. Nice rig. You could cover some miles in that.

I figured the thumb & twist throttle would be theway to go.

The bike well illustrates a newb trap - getting a curvy jazzy frame. classic MTB is best (after structurally handicapped ladies bikes) for ideal battery siting, as u have done. Are those normal dimensions front forks?

I was in an exhausting debate a bit back about the new cast wheels w/ integrated hub motor, which i quite fancy, given the spoke issues w/ powerful hubs.

Anoyter notion i posted in ES was, a rig like yours, but w/ a 24v hub in front, powered simply and cheaply by a 5-10ah standard 22v fast charging LIPO hobby pak.

Back to OP & philosophy tho - the OP, was as i recall ~"how can i boost my battery with a hybrid rig", which it seems, is hard.

The net effect of your rig is much the same, but keeps it simple, by allowing discrete batteries.

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motomech   1 GW

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Re: Can a ping 48v15ah do two motors? And fullriver packs?

Post by motomech » May 01 2017 1:39pm


The bike well illustrates a newb trap - getting a curvy jazzy frame. classic MTB is best (after structurally handicapped ladies bikes) for ideal battery siting, as u have done. Are those normal dimensions front forks?
The bike is a 2003 Rocky Mountain Edge;

http://www.bikepedia.com/QuickBike/Bike ... model=Edge

The forks are the original Marzocchi DJ 2, w/ 130mm travel and have never been serviced. But after 1000's of miles, they are starting to feel like they could use some work.
The rear Fox Float R has been serviced and tuned w/ the Fox "heavy rider's tuning kit".
The frame is an XL(20.5") and the price for the extra large space of the triangle is "stand-over" height. W/ the top tube being near horizonal, I couldn't stand astride the bike w/out the tube intruding into my "sensitive area" And I'm 5'10" tall.
So I lowered the bike by going w/ 24" tires, but then had a problem w/ pedal strikes when pedaling though corners. Going to the shortest crank arms solved that problem.
I was in an exhausting debate a bit back about the new cast wheels w/ integrated hub motor, which i quite fancy, given the spoke issues w/ powerful hubs.
They are heavy and there are issues in installing them in a standard bicycle 135 m/m rear drop-outs.
As, as the diameter size goes down, they measurement goes from in-side the tire to the out-side, making fitment very confusing, Also any "stealth" they build may have, goes out the window.
My Rocky Mountain, w/ it's cross-country frame, gets a little "twitchy(fast steering)at higher speeds. A down-hill frame, w/ more relaxed steering, is probably better, but I just don't see the need or safety of going faster than 30 MPH on a bicycle. So, I.M.O., the powerful one-piece motor wheel assemblies should be left to E-sooters and E-motos.

Anoyter notion i posted in ES was, a rig like yours, but w/ a 24v hub in front, powered simply and cheaply by a 5-10ah standard 22v fast charging LIPO hobby pak.
I have never seen the advantages of using 24V, only disadvantages. I use LiPoly battery chemistrey, so I need to match the controller's LVC w/ my pack. And the best controller/LiPoly match is 12S/48V(42V LVC).
Back to OP & philosophy tho - the OP, was as i recall ~"how can i boost my battery with a hybrid rig", which it seems, is hard.
Yes, any time packs are being paralleled, at pack level, or even balance level, it can be tricky. And "switching them becomes complicated. By using two discrete packs, I can keep the Current low. This means I can use 16 Ga. wire and the pre-built Y-connectors and can forgo other things like a pre-charge resistor circuit to prevent contact sparking.
Motomech


'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100H 201 frt. mounted, 14S Multistar LiPoly, elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A, Crazy Bobs on Alex DM32's 21 to 22 MPH. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=28151&p=1373714&hilit=Idrive#p13737

cycleops612   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 585
Joined: May 31 2015 3:45pm
Location: Sydney Australia, Me: 70kg/154lb. 350w, 22kg ex battery, 24 speed axial mid-drive Bofeili MTB.

Re: Can a ping 48v15ah do two motors? And fullriver packs?

Post by cycleops612 » May 02 2017 8:21am

motomech:

yep, cant see 24v winning beauty contests in USA. Here in sydney oz 250w is legal limit, only if no throttle only mode - else, 200w. largely honored in the breach, but a ~confiscated bike? is a worry. Doesnt pay to be in the cops face.

Only good to 3-400w. I have a 250w 24v. its ok for old folks going to the shops. geared down to buggery, but it works.

i hear a fit laborer expends 75w ph in a 7hr day. So ~250w is 4 fit guys work equivalent, in perspective. Geared right, its useful propulsion. Beats walking.

I had toyed w/ a stealth 24v front hub (maybe a 2 speed xiongda, but too heavy & too wide for disk brakes on normal forks - tho currently, my forks are getting rust spots) as a stealthy boost for my mid-drive 36v ~350w (the motor is invisible~), main appeal being a simple to charge, light, easily duplicated for swapover spares, lipo pak - a 22v standard hobby pak.

I dont know the real impact of being 2v under on a 24v bike?

u from tucson isee. have not spent long in US, but i feel i know its landscape well from film.

a cool thing in sydney/melbourne, and a major factor in bike choice for me, is urban metro/trains. Here in sydney, outside the 2 peak hours, its relaxed to ride to the staion, go anyplace fast, & ride to u destination. Even have disabled lifts at platform mostly.

so i do the hard scary bit by train, so even a 20k range bike is very useful transport.

So a bike i can heft upstairs if i must (as i do - ~28kg MTB), or walk it mono tweaking the throttle up them (which i havnt sorted yet but i can i think - the back rack i chose snags the ground). I can go anyplace easy. cbd/beach/over the harbour on a ferry..., simple parking.

i also like i can fit it in a regular sedan taxi, if all else fails.

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