Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Hillhater » Feb 13 2017 8:14pm

Rube wrote: Hydro is a option for inertia storage, turn the tap to up output but environmental impact and limited water mean high temp batteries may make sense. I'm no expert so interested in the communities' thoughts.
Pumped Hydro is the "go to" standard for power storage for most of the world currently and huge new capacity being installed and planned as we speak. It doesnt need huge water resources to be viable, some are practically closed circuit systems recycling water between dams/lakes etc, others ( Japan) use sea water sources on the coast.
http://reneweconomy.com.au/no-batteries ... age-79785/
Australia is in process of planning its 4th PH storage facility in QLD (the Kidson project) to supplement grid buffering and reduce dependency on Gas generator plants.
However, there is a huge cost advantage to that Silicon storage system, if their cost estimates are true ($700k for 10 MWh installation) is less than 1/4 the cost of a PH installation.
they just need to get that efficiency up. !
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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by liveforphysics » Feb 13 2017 11:18pm

Hillhater wrote:
Rube wrote: Hydro is a option for inertia storage, turn the tap to up output but environmental impact and limited water mean high temp batteries may make sense. I'm no expert so interested in the communities' thoughts.
Pumped Hydro is the "go to" standard for power storage for most of the world currently and huge new capacity being installed and planned as we speak. It doesnt need huge water resources to be viable, some are practically closed circuit systems recycling water between dams/lakes etc, others ( Japan) use sea water sources on the coast.
http://reneweconomy.com.au/no-batteries ... age-79785/
Australia is in process of planning its 4th PH storage facility in QLD (the Kidson project) to supplement grid buffering and reduce dependency on Gas generator plants.
However, there is a huge cost advantage to that Silicon storage system, if their cost estimates are true ($700k for 10 MWh installation) is less than 1/4 the cost of a PH installation.
they just need to get that efficiency up. !
Pumped hydro round-trip efficiency is pretty pitiful itself.
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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by LockH » Feb 14 2017 12:43pm

Hehe... Another "problem" maybe is to use dams to hold the water? Maybe ask folks in Oroville, CA how things are going there. :wink: When ya get politicians mixed in with "things" ya can end up with poor design and construction not properly maintained. :roll: Having said this, stored up water flowing down hill is maybe my fav form of "battery". :mrgreen:
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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Hillhater » Feb 14 2017 4:04pm

liveforphysics wrote: Pumped hydro round-trip efficiency is pretty pitiful itself.
well i guess 70 - 85% ( depending on who you believe)..isnt ideal, .. but since there are not many other options yet if you need a few GWh of storage,.. then you have to take whats on offer.
...and if the initial power source is renewable..Solar, etc ...the efficiency loss is not such an issue compare to the alternatives.
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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by spinningmagnets » Feb 28 2017 8:59pm

John Goodenough played a part in the early success of Lithium-Ion becoming a viable battery chemistry. Now, he is working on a glass-based electrolyte to prevent dendrite formation, and the new battery will also be sodium-based instead of lithium (more available, cheaper) for a type of solid state battery (no liquid electrolyte). Hopefully:

Non-combustable
More energy-dense per volume
Faster charging ability
Higher discharge ability
Longer life, more cycles

http://engr.utexas.edu/news/8203-goodenough-batteries

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by crazymanc » Mar 01 2017 2:46pm

I find it somewhat amusing that the glass electrolyte should be mentioned at about the same type as the polymer electrolyte...

Still this is quite encouraging as both technologies are about solving the same problem, but in a slightly different way. This makes either of them seem more promising, two sets of brains coming to a similar conclusion? A little competition and intellectual rivalry can be a good thing and with the two techs being similar, but critically different? Multiple application niches could be found with greater degrees of device specific optimisation.

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by macribs » Mar 01 2017 5:55pm

Thx for the link SM, good read. Had to look up more of this Goodenough due to his age. Man I hope my head is just as intact as his when I am his age.

More of the same thing we saw a few weeks ago a page or two back, moving away from liquid electrolytes to solid ones. Avoiding dendrites will boost safety, and let us run batteries harder. With high C rate usage, quick charge and more capacity. Sodium we got in abundance compared to lithium and sodium is also more easily "harvested". I seldom get excited about batteries breakthrough, there are just too much white noise. Too many too loud. And everyone and his uncle is claiming they will change the industry. This Goodenough could be the real thing, or so I hope.

Goodenough seems to have some impressive CV, and despite his age closing in on 100 years he still got a more advanced brain then most of us. Seems he was the one taking Exxon scientist Whttinghams Lithium discovery and made it useful and more safe by adding cobolt oxide rather then titanium sulfate to the mix.

And the old man got balls big enough to set a goal to have the batteries to market and I quote "in his lifetime". That is something when you consider he is 94 years old. :)

Exciting times comrades. Suddenly we don't have to worry about charge time, discharge rate or draining battery too quickly. Cheap hi ah batteries with hi C rate for everyone 8)

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by macribs » Mar 01 2017 6:17pm

Meanwhile I will start trawling for a slightly abused Caterham that I can convert to the ultimate electric track day car, or fun car for those rare warm & sunny days when one can only drive a true classic topless ride with all things mechanical. Caterham with a small & lightweight batterypack and 4wd would be so much fun. Come on Goodenough, get those cells to market pronto.

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by LockH » Mar 04 2017 1:37pm

Water-powered battery was invented
http://www.knowyourleak.com/Water-power ... 45718.html
Water-powered battery was invented Scientists at Penn State University have succeeded in obtaining electrics using a battery design that contains water cells that contain different CO2 solutions they could obtain hundreds of times more energy than similar works. There is a thin membrane to prevent mixing between water cells with different CO2 The membrane allows the passage of ions while preventing the mixing of the two liquids.
EDIT: Hehe... ES Bible "Search found 23 matches: +"Penn State"" :wink:
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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 07 2017 7:46pm

I don't know if there's any that have been missed, but....here's a list from the internet with about 20 different PR releases.

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/130380- ... er-the-air

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by LockH » Mar 19 2017 12:09pm

spinningmagnets wrote:John Goodenough played a part in the early success of Lithium-Ion becoming a viable battery chemistry. Now, he is working on a glass-based electrolyte to prevent dendrite formation, and the new battery will also be sodium-based instead of lithium (more available, cheaper) for a type of solid state battery (no liquid electrolyte). Hopefully:

Non-combustable
More energy-dense per volume
Faster charging ability
Higher discharge ability
Longer life, more cycles

http://engr.utexas.edu/news/8203-goodenough-batteries

... news just hit the PBS site:
Super-Safe Glass Battery Charges in Minutes, Not Hours:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/tech/ ... not-hours/

8)
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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by DVDRW » Mar 29 2017 2:35am

Realistic news:
Panasonic NCR20700B avaliable soon!
https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/18650-s ... ttery.html

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by squeeze » Mar 31 2017 4:01pm

DVDRW wrote:Realistic news:
Panasonic NCR20700B avaliable soon!
https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/18650-s ... ttery.html
Slightly larger than 18650 cells, but good news nonetheless!!

:D

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by fechter » Apr 01 2017 9:56pm

DVDRW wrote:Realistic news:
Panasonic NCR20700B avaliable soon!
https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/18650-s ... ttery.html
Now says:
Availability: Out of stock

Expected in stock on: April 4
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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by LockH » Apr 06 2017 4:02pm

Tesla.jpg
Tesla.jpg (60.52 KiB) Viewed 2966 times
Tesla’s new patent for its Powerpack explains how its energy storage stations can go up to 1 GWh:
https://electrek.co/2017/03/31/tesla-pa ... e-station/
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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by LockH » Apr 09 2017 5:55pm

Hehe... ES Bible "Search found 14 matches: +Hyundai"... (The last/latest in July, 2011...) Again:

Hyundai Developing Its Own Solid-State EV Batteries (Rumor):
https://cleantechnica.com/2017/04/09/hy ... ies-rumor/

Includes:
Interestingly, though, the report also claims that the company has already established pilot-scale solid-state battery production facilities...
8)
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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 10 2017 1:53am

If Hyundai has figured out a manufacturing friendly and cost friendly solid electrolyte, then Tesla's first real competition may be forming in Korea.

Korea is the new Japan for mfg quality and capabilities. Any/every smart automotive OEM would purchase every new tesla variant and take every piece apart as an engineer training exercise.

The bay area engineering and RnD capacity is perhaps second to none. Tesla must always leverage this through continuous rapid innovation and product development (as they wisely have been). If Hyundai really has an automotive environment friendly solid electrolyte that checks all the boxes, Tesla needs to get its gigafactory re-tooled for making cells based on it.
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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 11 2017 8:08pm


Glasses can most certainly transport metal ions.

Its also not a physics problem for >5x energy density, but a materials tech problem.

That said, he could be an old man full of beans, but I've seen nothing he suggested outside the realm of possibility IMHO.
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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Warren » Apr 12 2017 2:59pm

liveforphysics,

"I've seen nothing he suggested outside the realm of possibility IMHO."

Great! I hope he's right. As much as I appreciate the lithium ion cells we have now, they are still crap for weight and volume, compared to the usable energy we get from blowing up gas in a bucket, attached to a crank. :-)

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by Jestronix » Apr 12 2017 4:15pm

Warren wrote:liveforphysics,

"I've seen nothing he suggested outside the realm of possibility IMHO."

Great! I hope he's right. As much as I appreciate the lithium ion cells we have now, they are still crap for weight and volume, compared to the usable energy we get from blowing up gas in a bucket, attached to a crank. :-)
Just like death clock.com we need a clock that's for when battery energy density beats petroleum. Or a gauge, my guess is 10- 15 years for mass production and use.

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by joss » Apr 21 2017 1:19am

...going back to pumped storage....and slightly off topic but I thought this was an interesting option for pumped storage.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... er-battery

I guess it cuts the need for a surface reservoir to 1. I wonder what the water quality will be like after repeated cycling?

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by crazymanc » Apr 22 2017 5:29pm

joss wrote: I wonder what the water quality will be like after repeated cycling?
Not good I'd imagine but it's possible that once washed through most of the large particulates would just sink to the bottom of the mine shaft.

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Re: Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Post by macribs » May 12 2017 12:17pm

New way of stacking cells. Can it be like what happen when memory was possible to stack up high?
1000 km per charge? They claim their way of packing and stacking will reduce volume by 50% so there will be room to increase the cells by 50% on the same footprint as before. The end of spot welding? Even less inductance? Cheaper to produce and more range. :)

We've seen one more exotic new battery technology surface the past 10 years. They all promises a lot but fail to hit marked, or does not live up the hype. The simplicity of this really has the potential to turn the battery industry up side down. In record time. Several big players could turn to this way of manufacturing cells. Might even be possible to easily convert todays assembly line for cylindrical cells for this new way. No flimsy spot welds that might or maybe not break off by vibration or whatever. The new stack would make for faster battery pack building.

https://www.fraunhofer.de/en/press/rese ... ncept.html

https://www.embatt.de/technologie.html

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