Do this if you build your own battery

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
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dogman dan   100 GW

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Do this if you build your own battery

Post by dogman dan » Jul 31 2012 4:10am

Reading a recent thread, Ironmonkey was wondering if his bms was working.

It occured to me, that including another way to balance the pack would be a great thing to have.




Add sets of 6s or 8s balance wires to the pack, similar to the ones on RC lipo packs. Also a few extra charger wires every 8 cells or 6 cells.

Then you could easily check the cells with a cellog 8, and if needed use a cheap RC charger to run a balancing charge, or single cell charge as needed.





I've been meaning to do this to my pingbattery, but never did because I have not had to remove the shrink wrap yet. But if you are building from scratch anyway, it seems like the smart thing to do to at least add extra balance taps to easily and quickly check individual cell voltage with a cellog 8.

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Jeremy Harris   10 GW

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Re: Do this if you build your own battery

Post by Jeremy Harris » Jul 31 2012 4:30am

dogman wrote:Reading a recent thread, Ironmonkey was wondering if his bms was working.

It occured to me, that including another way to balance the pack would be a great thing to have.




Add sets of 6s or 8s balance wires to the pack, similar to the ones on RC lipo packs. Also a few extra charger wires every 8 cells or 6 cells.

Then you could easily check the cells with a cellog 8, and if needed use a cheap RC charger to run a balancing charge, or single cell charge as needed.





I've been meaning to do this to my pingbattery, but never did because I have not had to remove the shrink wrap yet. But if you are building from scratch anyway, it seems like the smart thing to do to at least add extra balance taps to easily and quickly check individual cell voltage with a cellog 8.
It's a very good idea, and one I have on my packs. I have RC style balance leads tucked up in a little pocket, so I can just pull them out and plug in a cellog to see what the packs looking like. If nothing else if gives a bit of reassurance that all's well.

I found some long balance lead extensions on ebay (around 1 foot long), cut off the connector I didn't need at one end and wired it to the cells. This gives enough extra wire length to be able to pull them out without straining any connections.
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Re: Do this if you build your own battery

Post by docnjoj » Jul 31 2012 6:46am

agniusm has a place and wiring for this exact situation on the kit A123 20 ah packs and boards a number of us are building. Read about my "trials and tribulations" in the Kit build threat. I cut up some old EPBuddy 6S leads.
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Re: Do this if you build your own battery

Post by dumbass » Jul 31 2012 8:09am

I have a CEllLog mounted into each of my 4 24v packs along with balance wires on Anderson connectors. I little over kill using the Andersons connectors but I worried about always connecting and diconnecting would be bad for a small balance connector.

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Re: Do this if you build your own battery

Post by Ykick » Jul 31 2012 8:21am

Not affiliated with 'em aside from being a customer but EP Buddy sells very reasonable balance plug wiring harnesses. M/F extensions or flying leads from nice silicone wire and good solid connections on every one I've tried.

Balance taps are a great way to monitor pack health, log sag under riding conditions, charging, balancing, etc. I've done 100's of connections on the JST plugs and nary a problem.
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Re: Do this if you build your own battery

Post by Ypedal » Jul 31 2012 8:44am

This is how i setup my KMX pack.. i have 6S ballance leads on each P group and a pair of andersons ( 24v - 6S ) access and a 100v ( 24S ) for bulk charge..

BMS free since 2006 !
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Re: Do this if you build your own battery

Post by migueralliart » Jul 31 2012 8:57am

That's exactly how I built my 18650 15.2Ah pack with 2 5S connectors. Also I've built some A123 packs using the same concept but with 8S connectors.

Just in case the only high current connectors I could find were these( the seller ships relatively fast from china)

8S
http://www.ebay.com/itm/8S-balance-char ... 20af19ce25

6S
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6S-balance-char ... 20b30c2966

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Re: Do this if you build your own battery

Post by 999zip999 » Jul 31 2012 4:56pm

Have a 18s konion pack set up with hyperion 6s and a 24s A123 pack as 2-12s with the 6s. I wanted ebuddy 6s ext. but were out. So got the HK 6s ext. and they are crap they float at times. Plus as JD said you can put ext. on the 6s ect. as not to wear out the plugs on the pack. Yes no bms. Just bulk charge the konion pack and check ( one funny cell group ) I plug the A123 in the hyperion 1420. I did put balance wires on my Ping and loved it with the bms. H.K are crap ! Plus I got the hyperion 7s sentry cell monitor's. Plus and minus's. What's the best cell checker ?
Last edited by 999zip999 on Aug 01 2012 12:44pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Do this if you build your own battery

Post by ambroseliao » Jul 31 2012 7:47pm

999zip999 wrote:Have a 18s konion pack set up with hyperion 6s and a 24s A123 pack as 2-12s with the 6s. I wanted ebuddy 6s ext. but were out. So got the HK 6s ext. and they are crap they float at times. Plus as JD said you can put ext. on the 6s ect. as not to wear out the plugs on the pack. Yes no bms. Just a bulk charge the konion pack and check ( one funny cell group ) I plug the A123 in the hyperion 1420. I did put balance wires on my Ping and loved it with the bms. H.K are crap ! Plus I got the hyperion 7s sentry cell monitor's. Plus and minus's. What's the best cell checker ?
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Re: Do this if you build your own battery

Post by 999zip999 » Jul 31 2012 8:09pm

Sorry spent all day waiting for the Lowe's carpet installer to find out they can't find the carpet ? What no phone call. Frocking Lowe's. Please Cindy don't use Lowes, and she ran out strait to Lowe's. What ?
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Re: Do this if you build your own battery

Post by Hyena » Jul 31 2012 9:58pm

Yep, I do this too. I mainly use lipo as it's there anyway but I've been adding them to the few lifepo4 packs I build for myself lately too. With my new isolated balance charger that charges directly through the balance taps it's a breeze to quickly charge any cell or sub pack regardless of the series connections in place, or BMS, or just about anything else you coudl think of 8)
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Re: Do this if you build your own battery

Post by 999zip999 » Aug 01 2012 12:26am

How many amps can you put thru the HK stlye balance wires ? Your 8a isolated charger has it's plus's. What gauge wires do you use ?
I would like a kingpan 900w charger. With balance wires and meter. Maybe not to full charge. No bms. Any I'm giving it a go.

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Re: Do this if you build your own battery

Post by Hyena » Aug 01 2012 12:41am

I'd had no wires close to melting at 8 amps - either zippy PVC wires or turnigy silicon ones. They get a little warm but far from being an issue. It actually surprised me, I figured pulling 8 amps would only be possible with a few packs connected at once through the 4P balance board but even a single 6S pack hooked directly to the charger is fine. The fan shifts alot of cold air right around where the balance tap plugs in and I suspect this helps keep things cool.
I did note when pulling the charger apart that the circuit board traces that the balance tap port are quite beefy so if you really wanted you could modify it with your own higher current 7 pin plug. 7 andersons with 14ga wire if you wanted. Though as above it seems to do surprisingly well with the JSTs
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Re: Do this if you build your own battery

Post by etriker » Aug 01 2012 1:26am

999zip999 wrote:Have a 18s konion pack set up with hyperion 6s and a 24s A123 pack as 2-12s with the 6s. I wanted ebuddy 6s ext. but were out. So got the HK 6s ext. and they are crap they float at times. Plus as JD said you can put ext. on the 6s ect. as not to wear out the plugs on the pack. Yes no bms. Just a bulk charge the konion pack and check ( one funny cell group ) I plug the A123 in the hyperion 1420. I did put balance wires on my Ping and loved it with the bms. H.K are crap ! Plus I got the hyperion 7s sentry cell monitor's. Plus and minus's. What's the best cell checker ?
What is the best cell checker ?

This seller says the new version has an automatic balancing function ?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HYPERION-EOS-SE ... 3a77a569ea

Has anyone out there tried these ?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/150W-3-in-1-RC- ... 3f1a676bbe

They balance the pack.

I tend not to believe any meter unless it says Fluke on it.

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Re: Do this if you build your own battery

Post by dogman dan » Aug 01 2012 5:29am

I've found the cellog 8 to be my best device. My cheap harbor freight DVM's don't all agree to .01v for one. But the cellog 8 I have seems to at least agree with the DVM's best on all 8 cells.

I know my cheap 150w RC lipo chargers don't measure cell voltage all that accurate. That's part of why I don't go around losing sleep over .02v out of balance on anything. Gotta get a good hyperion some day for sure.

No suprise the geniuses of the forum already included this idea in thier packs. But lots of new readers need it repeated in enough places to have it pop up when they do a search. So I put up this thread to give em another chance to see the idea. Hoping battery + build will make it pop up.

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Re: Do this if you build your own battery

Post by Hyena » Aug 01 2012 5:52am

etriker wrote:Has anyone out there tried these ?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/150W-3-in-1-RC- ... 3f1a676bbe

They balance the pack.
I just posted information / a review on these about an hour before you posted this :)
Here's the post
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 08#p617708
As balancers they're pretty slow but they're tough to beat without spending several times that mount of money.
dogman wrote: I put up this thread to give em another chance to see the idea. Hoping battery + build will make it pop up.
Heh, maybe there needs to be a bunch of "required reading" threads that noobs have to read though before being allowed to post :P
Or maybe a flashing hot pink bold text link to the wiki !
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Re: Do this if you build your own battery

Post by etriker » Aug 01 2012 7:50am

Hyena wrote:
etriker wrote:Has anyone out there tried these ?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/150W-3-in-1-RC- ... 3f1a676bbe

They balance the pack.
I just posted information / a review on these about an hour before you posted this :)
Here's the post
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 08#p617708
As balancers they're pretty slow but they're tough to beat without spending several times that mount of money.
dogman wrote: I put up this thread to give em another chance to see the idea. Hoping battery + build will make it pop up.
Heh, maybe there needs to be a bunch of "required reading" threads that noobs have to read though before being allowed to post :P
Or maybe a flashing hot pink bold text link to the wiki !
Maybe Ping or that headway headquarters kid or some of the other newbee battery pack builders will see this and put balance leads on the packs they sell. :)

Or how about this, tell them you want one added to your pack when you order it ?

And thanks for the info. I saw them on eBay called 3 in 1 and missed your info.

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Re: Do this if you build your own battery

Post by diggler » Feb 19 2015 9:35pm

what's the best checker/balancer????
I agree the cell log 8's seem to be the winner for cell checkers.
I've seen many peeps on here use them and I like the high voltage alarm function too.
Great for when your bulk charging so you can be alerted if one cell gets too high.
But what's the general consensus on discharge balance checkers.
Which one do you have? Who knows what the best (most accurate/durable/fastest) one is?
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Re: Do this if you build your own battery

Post by Offroader » Feb 20 2015 3:17am

Do you mean like this? Here are my 6s balance leads tapped into my 18s pack. I can easily check the voltage of any cells and bulk charge my pack without removing the battery cover.

I don't think they could be in a more handy spot.

Image

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Re: Do this if you build your own battery

Post by dogman dan » Feb 20 2015 6:24am

Yep, Something like that is perfect. You might though, put some large diameter heat shrink around each group of wires. Looks a bit vulnerable to chafing the wires on the hole.

Or a rubber grommet on the hole would also work.

This fall I bought one of those 13s allcell batteries for my bike. Driving me nuts that I can't easily check the voltage of each cell group. But with a two year warranty on it, I don't want to start modifying it, voiding the warranty.

But if you build your own battery, absolutely have the jst ports on it. have to have em if you don't have a bms. but really nice to have along with a bms.

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