A123 20AH cells source?

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neptronix   100 GW

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A123 20AH cells source?

Post by neptronix » Mar 17 2011 11:51pm

http://www.osnpower.com/productID/produ ... 26328.html

HMM... can this be true?
Typical half broken Chinese site..
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Re: A123 20AH cells source?

Post by jlustig83 » Mar 18 2011 7:59pm

Are they for sale?

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Re: A123 20AH cells source?

Post by grindz145 » Mar 18 2011 8:52pm

Is cell man still selling these?

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Re: A123 20AH cells source?

Post by neptronix » Mar 18 2011 8:56pm

Cell man isn't selling them.
I don't know if this site is legit.

Just passing the link on as there has been a lot of interest. I figure some people here know how to talk to Chinese businesses... i don't!
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
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Re: A123 20AH cells source?

Post by AussieJester » Mar 18 2011 9:00pm

I asked for pricing on a 'sample' number of cells (20 cells) and then for pricing on per 1000 order of cells haha..
Hopefully i will get a reply in Chinenglish that i can decipher enough to get the pricing details ...shall keep informed.

And no cell_man no longer can get them unfortunately, he does do A123 cells however, in cylindrical format.

KiM

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Re: A123 20AH cells source?

Post by Linukas » Mar 21 2011 1:53am

Hello,
We have just ordered some "sample" cells for tests, after couple of weeks I'll post about it...

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: A123 20AH cells source?

Post by neptronix » Mar 21 2011 2:53am

Interesting. I await your results. I suppose i'll save up some $ this month... lol
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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Re: A123 20AH cells source?

Post by x88x » Mar 21 2011 11:00am

Linukas wrote:Hello,
We have just ordered some "sample" cells for tests, after couple of weeks I'll post about it...

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What prices did they give you?
That we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours, and this we should do freely and generously.
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j3tch1u   10 kW

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Re: A123 20AH cells source?

Post by j3tch1u » Mar 22 2011 2:57pm

luke is in shenzhen. i've pm'd the address to him. maybe he can strap some to his body and smuggle a few kilowatts into the country?

i've been in contact with the a123 distributor here in taiwan. they are asking for a proposal--i'm not sure i'd qualify so i'm using my friends' companies (e-car and e-scooter) as a front. i don't expect prices to be cheap as they are the only game in town.

http://www.endrich.com.tw/html/front/bin/home.phtml

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Re: A123 20AH cells source?

Post by texaspyro » Mar 22 2011 6:21pm

j3tch1u wrote:luke is in shenzhen. i've pm'd the address to him. maybe he can strap some to his body and smuggle a few kilowatts into the country?
Nope, not strapped TO his body... Luke smuggles them like a real (San Francisco) man :shock:

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Re: A123 20AH cells source?

Post by Hillhater » Mar 22 2011 7:01pm

texaspyro wrote: Nope, not strapped TO his body... Luke smuggles them like a real (San Francisco) man :shock:
but i thought we were talking pouch cells .. not Headways ! :shock: :lol:
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Re: A123 20AH cells source?

Post by BandDButton » Mar 22 2011 8:55pm

What type of enclosure would these require to keep them from puffing?

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Re: A123 20AH cells source?

Post by x88x » Mar 22 2011 9:01pm

BandDButton wrote:What type of enclosure would these require to keep them from puffing?
From what I hear, nobody has been able to get these to puff at all (well, assuming these are actually A123 prismatics), so...probably whatever you like.
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jlustig83   10 W

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Re: A123 20AH cells source?

Post by jlustig83 » Mar 23 2011 4:50am

These people emailed me back witha price of $45 per cell. The minimum order is 100 cells. Thats $4500 :shock:

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Re: A123 20AH cells source?

Post by jlustig83 » Mar 23 2011 4:55am

Oh and 500+ cells is $40 per cell

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: A123 20AH cells source?

Post by neptronix » Mar 23 2011 5:03am

jlustig83 wrote:These people emailed me back witha price of $45 per cell. The minimum order is 100 cells. Thats $4500 :shock:
100 is not a lot. That would be easy to do a small group buy with.

Now the question is how many people are willing to pay for A123 20AH cells now that lipo has really dominated the high power stuff.

Add shipping cost and some kind of profit for the group buy dealer and those get expensive fast ( $50-$60 per cell? )
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
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Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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Re: A123 20AH cells source?

Post by texaspyro » Mar 23 2011 5:27am

Hillhater wrote: but i thought we were talking pouch cells .. not Headways ! :shock: :lol:
Square peg... round hole... with the proper preparation (H) it can be done. :roll:

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Re: A123 20AH cells source?

Post by Xrain » Mar 23 2011 5:59am

neptronix wrote:
jlustig83 wrote:These people emailed me back witha price of $45 per cell. The minimum order is 100 cells. Thats $4500 :shock:
100 is not a lot. That would be easy to do a small group buy with.

Now the question is how many people are willing to pay for A123 20AH cells now that lipo has really dominated the high power stuff.

Add shipping cost and some kind of profit for the group buy dealer and those get expensive fast ( $50-$60 per cell? )

Just picture it as a 4p HK Lipo, that's $39.99

The HK 25c 4s weighs 552g and is 147x28x33 so 135.8 cm^3

The A123 20ah prismatic is: 480g, and 7.0X166X227mm or 205.6 cm^3

They both have a similar discharge rate, but other than the volumetric density being a bit lower, the prismatic battery holds quite a few advantages.

For one you can expect around 2000-2500 discharge cycles out of the a123 vs 500-1000 from the lipo, another key advantage is it wont burn your house down. No matter how careless you are with charging it.


So a significant increase in lifespan, safety, wh/kg. For a $5 increase in price and a 50% increase in volume.


As soon as someone can verify that these are the genuine articles, I think I would like around 18 of them. :D

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Re: A123 20AH cells source?

Post by jlustig83 » Mar 23 2011 7:13am

Ya, 18 would be nice. That would run you about $810 not counting shipping at $45 a cell then you would have to build the pack. I don't think a lot folks like building there own packs, but I would.

When I emailed them I gave them a bogus company name just too see if they would email some prices and it worked :D I wish there was a way to know that these were legit.

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Re: A123 20AH cells source?

Post by x88x » Mar 23 2011 8:07am

Hmm, yeah, at $45/cell, that would definitely be worth a look. I would need ~100 cells for the pack for the motorcycle conversion I'm planning anyways. 50% larger volume, 14% less weight, 35% higher price, and 100-500% (depending how you treat the various cells) longer life....yeah, I could get into that. I wonder if cell_man could get a better price for them if he bought in bulk.
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Re: A123 20AH cells source?

Post by j3tch1u » Mar 23 2011 8:21am

BandDButton wrote:What type of enclosure would these require to keep them from puffing?
puffing while in transit? an extremely strong sphincter muscle.

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Re: A123 20AH cells source?

Post by Linukas » Mar 23 2011 2:10pm

Hi,

our sample cells are on the way, maybe after couple of weeks I can write about them.
price for samples are the same $45/pcs.
If these are realy a123 cells, we will order big quantity for couple of our projects, maybe there would be possible to order more to resell to Europe customers, than we can save some $ on shipping.

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Re: A123 20AH cells source?

Post by neptronix » Mar 23 2011 2:29pm

Xrain wrote:For one you can expect around 2000-2500 discharge cycles out of the a123 vs 500-1000 from the lipo, another key advantage is it wont burn your house down. No matter how careless you are with charging it.
Yeah, the A123 is certainly a better value.
Also add to the fact that roughly 1 in 10 hobbyking lipo packs are duds. That increases the ultimate cost of the lipo.
But you need more A123 cells to do the same job as the lipo has higher voltage.

It's kind of a tradeoff.

If i could start all over again i would have picked 20ah A123 and accepted the higher weight.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
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Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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Re: A123 20AH cells source?

Post by jimw1960 » Mar 23 2011 3:00pm

Linukas wrote:Hi,

our sample cells are on the way, maybe after couple of weeks I can write about them.
price for samples are the same $45/pcs.
If these are realy a123 cells, we will order big quantity for couple of our projects, maybe there would be possible to order more to resell to Europe customers, than we can save some $ on shipping.

--
Linas

Are you talking about the Shenzhen supplier or the Taiwan supplier? Two separate links were posted so I lost track of which supplier we are talking about that will sell for $45/cell. Has anybody asked about whether they could supply batteries built from these cells?

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Re: A123 20AH cells source?

Post by x88x » Mar 23 2011 3:11pm

Also, I was thinking about it on the way to work this morning, and if you compare them to A123 26650's (tbh a more fair comparison), $45/cell is actually very appealing. Considering that 1S1P 20Ah about equals 1S9P 26650, that works out to an equivalent of $5/cell for 26650's..a price that I think we would all agree is pretty good. Heck, the current prices that cell_man has for 26650 packs would equate to ~$54/cell for these! Granted that's a fully assembled pack, but if he could get these in bulk at, say $35-40/cell and sell packs at $55-60/cell (note, this may be a gross over or under estimate; I have no knowledge of cell_man's testing/pack-assembling costs or his profit margins, so this is pure guess-work/wishful thinking/etc), I think those would sell crazy fast.
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