Ping 48V15Ah WTF

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
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Cold-E-Commuter   100 W

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Re: Ping 48V15Ah WTF

Post by Cold-E-Commuter » Sep 07 2010 11:32pm

More pics.
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Enjoy
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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Ping 48V15Ah WTF

Post by dogman dan » Sep 08 2010 5:35am

My lipos from hobby king came yesterday too. Interesting to compare the box they came in :lol:
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They did try to pack em nice, but at 30,000 feet the bags of air packing popped. There was enough bubble wrap though, so they all were ok despite the box getting squashed flat.

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Re: Ping 48V15Ah WTF

Post by wiredsim » Sep 08 2010 9:04am

Not to thread crap, but since the question was already posted earlier.. I was looking at some bikes in Photo's and Videos and found this site again, I know there are many different resellers in the US that sell lithium battery kits to go along with their e-bikes, but they tend to be pretty pricey. These guys don't beat ping, but they aren't completely out of the ball field either:

http://www.hightekbikes.com/battery.html
36V 15AH LiFePO4 Polymer Battery with Charger
Price $549.00

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Re: Ping 48V15Ah WTF

Post by garyhgaryh » Sep 09 2010 3:32am

Cold-E-Commuter wrote:More pics.
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Enjoy
Is that the standard 4A charger (vs the upgraded 6A one)? The ones I've seen have black plastic bodies whereas your charger is in a nice aluminum box.
Gary

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Re: Ping 48V15Ah WTF

Post by garyhgaryh » Sep 09 2010 1:36pm

Cold-E-Commuter wrote:http://www.rei.com/product/789679
This will be large enough to hold not only the battery but the controller and all the other miscelaneous electronics involved. It will be modified, of course, to have power toggles available from the outside and vent slots for cooling. Pics will follow. Anyone interested in an origianl WE 36V pack in bag with charger? It only has 48 cycles on it at about 50% DOD. I don't see it getting much use from here!
Sorry to all legit members for the title of this post that seemed to attract unwanted (even apparently banned) people from hijacking this thread. First ride will be tommorow and I will follow up as time goes by.
Thank you! I just ordered this. It's on sale too.
It was either this or a $20 rack Bell bag at walmart which look like it would be a tight fit. I still might get the Bell bag for the heck of it.

Oh, I got my ping battery today as well! But I got the 4A plastic charger :(.
Gary

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Re: Ping 48V15Ah WTF

Post by 999zip999 » Sep 09 2010 2:34pm

Gary I though ping just had the free 2amp. and the 5amp. chargher ?

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Re: Ping 48V15Ah WTF

Post by dnmun » Sep 09 2010 5:44pm

the metal case charger is the King Power charger, KP, the 4A charger is for 48V and is the same charger as the 5A 36V charger. i actually thought that plastic charger was overbuilt when i looked inside. has two not one inrush current limiter, ICL, or thermistor, and they are really big so it should standup to the surge on startup better than most.

the 2A charger is super efficient too, with the little fan, it also has a thermal switch inside to shut it down if the transformer overheats, really valuable in a small boxed charger like that.

i think that is where ping learned to include the best charger he could since that was the weak link in his original kits, he learned and made the changes, that's how you succeed in business. all imho

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Re: Ping 48V15Ah WTF

Post by 999zip999 » Sep 09 2010 6:19pm

Garyhgaryh and Dmnun, 48v ?. PIng has a 2amp. plastic, a 4amp. plastic, a metal 4amp. power king and a metal 5amp. chargher ? I would like to see pings ala cart menu ? And price a V3 pack ? So which is the best chargher for size and is the 5amp. the one for 48v20ah battery or the 4amp. PK the one ? THANKS oh was I yelling ?

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Re: Ping 48V15Ah WTF

Post by Cold-E-Commuter » Sep 09 2010 6:31pm

The metal charger in the pictures was the standard 2A charger. I did not order an upgrade. The case is marked as a 2A, 60.5V out, 100-240V in charger. Seems really nice though. The fan shuts off when charging is complete, unlike the plastic Cansai charger I recieved with the WE kit originally. The new charger even has an externally accesable fuse and Ping sent 2 extra fuses for it. I know it charges at 2.04A according to my Watt's Up.
Enjoy
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Re: Ping 48V15Ah WTF

Post by 999zip999 » Sep 09 2010 8:19pm

Cold e commuter, Looks like ping upgraded the free 2amp. charger to metal, But with a fuse O-boy ! My year old 2amp. is small plastic and makes a humming noise at frist at high speed then will lose the hum. I took it apart and tried to oil the brushing but didn't what to brake the fan. I'm thinking of getting a new 5amp. if it's the best for my battery does it have a fuse ?

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Re: Ping 48V15Ah WTF

Post by Cold-E-Commuter » Sep 09 2010 9:30pm

No idea if the fuse thing makes it a better charger. I will not pretend to be an expert. Just makes me feel better in case I do something stupid that there is a chance the charger will be salvagable because a fuse blew instead of caps or resistors. This charger is rather loud, the fan, when running, but the fact it shuts off when charged will promote this battery being on the charger unless in use. Might also be possible that Ping upgraded for me because of the mail delays. If this package was returned to him and I had complained about time, maybe he upgraded just to be nice. Either way, I like it. I am still waiting for clearnace from my orthopedic surgeon to ride agian. The broken arm has set testing back a few days at least.
Trek 3700 MTB
NC2806 in 26" Front Hub on Rockshox XC32TC fork w/ Avid BB7 disc brake
Infineon 12xIRFB4110 mosfet controller
Ebikes.ca SS Dual Torque Arm and CA/DP Large Screen Unit
CA Data Logger w/ GPS
Schwalbe Marathon Green Guard tires 26x1.5 at 70 psi

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Re: Ping 48V15Ah WTF

Post by garyhgaryh » Sep 10 2010 12:08am

999zip999 wrote:Gary I though ping just had the free 2amp. and the 5amp. chargher ?
From my understanding, he has 2A, 4A, 5A, and a 7.5A charger.

I have a 4A plastic charger. I bought my ping used on ebay and during shipping the case split in half due to bad packaging. I snapped it back together and it seems fine. I like the fact it has a fan in it.

I wish I got the aluminum charger, but I'm happy with the 4A charger. My charger does say 4A so I'm not just guessing.

BTW, I got the cargo bag from Walmart today and it fits the ping 24v 20ah battery perfectly. Too perfect. I'm surprised no one has
discovered this (maybe they have but it was no big deal). The bag is relatively small, which is good as I don't want myself to stand out
during a ride. I also bought the REI plastic cargo box which should come in 2 weeks. Will update you guys on that when I get it.

Also, has anyone used anderson connectors? I bought one and I thought it cames in a a pair? I have to buy two? At $10 ea ($20 total) to
connect my ping, that is expensive! I bought mine at Graingers. Anyone want the part #? Will handle up to 50A. I'm looking for a cheaper
source.

One more thing, how does the bms light work? I plugged in my charger and at first i got no lights. Thought I got ripped off, but lights came on a few minutes later. All red, but two lights in the middle did not light up. In about 10 mins one of the two unlit light goes on. And after another five minutes both of them go on. Later on, one of those two led starts to flash red slowly. What does that mean? Am I waiting for all green lights?

As you can tell I'm a newbie on the ping stuff.
Gary

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Re: Ping 48V15Ah WTF

Post by garyhgaryh » Sep 10 2010 12:10am

Cold-E-Commuter wrote:The metal charger in the pictures was the standard 2A charger. I did not order an upgrade. The case is marked as a 2A, 60.5V out, 100-240V in charger. Seems really nice though. The fan shuts off when charging is complete, unlike the plastic Cansai charger I recieved with the WE kit originally. The new charger even has an externally accesable fuse and Ping sent 2 extra fuses for it. I know it charges at 2.04A according to my Watt's Up.
Enjoy
You really got lucky and ping seems to be building his batteries better too. You had some wire protector and some heat wrap on yours. Did you install them or were those from ping?
Gary

Ps. I rather have a fuse in my charger. Doesn't make a charger better or worst than one w/o a fuse, except it would be better in that there is a protection circuit just in case the charger is overloaded/shorted/etc.

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Re: Ping 48V15Ah WTF

Post by 999zip999 » Sep 10 2010 1:18am

Garyhgaryh, After all the lights have been on for a 1hr.or more unplug the chargher and let the bms balance the pack. The lights will start blinking, a good thing. After all the lights are blinking. This is the time when all is balance. And there is peace in the middle east. It might that a few light cycles for stronger and stronger battery. Dodman has a thread on new ping balancing. This batteries last a long time not to many amps but a cycle analist is the best mine should be here tomorrow. And I could turn down my amps. I have hit my ping very hard for a year and it's comes back. Do protect in from being hit. GOOD LUCK !!

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Re: Ping 48V15Ah WTF

Post by garyhgaryh » Sep 10 2010 3:52am

999zip999 wrote:Garyhgaryh, After all the lights have been on for a 1hr.or more unplug the chargher and let the bms balance the pack. The lights will start blinking, a good thing. After all the lights are blinking. This is the time when all is balance. And there is peace in the middle east. It might that a few light cycles for stronger and stronger battery. Dodman has a thread on new ping balancing. This batteries last a long time not to many amps but a cycle analist is the best mine should be here tomorrow. And I could turn down my amps. I have hit my ping very hard for a year and it's comes back. Do protect in from being hit. GOOD LUCK !!
Oh this is good to know. I was just going to keep it plugged in hoping it would balance itself. So I need to unplug it to get the balancing process going? And it's done balancing when _ALL_ the leds are blinking. At that time, should I plug it in again to charge? I won't be using this battery for a week until I get some connectors.

I found some anderson connectors tonight for about $3.xx/ea. Much better than the $9.xx at Graingers.
All I need is two, but since it was so cheap, I bought 4 just in case I get another ping battery :).
Gary

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Re: Ping 48V15Ah WTF

Post by garyhgaryh » Sep 10 2010 4:00am

So I just unplugged my charger (just disconnected the xlr connector) after 3-4 hrs of being plugged in after the pack was fully charged ( all the LED's turned on ).
My BMS lights are still on. When will the lights start dancing and when will the led's finally turn off?

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Re: Ping 48V15Ah WTF

Post by dogman dan » Sep 10 2010 5:29am

Once all the lights are on, it's balanced at full charge. As they turn off, the battery is losing some surface charge from it's full hot off the charger voltage. All you need to do to remove all the surface charge is plug in the bike and run the motor for about 1 second. Waiting for the lights to turn off is not getting it more balanced. If you really want to check your batteries balance, charge it, ride a few feet to remove the surface charge, and then check each set of paralelled cells with a voltmeter.

They tend to balance slower the first few cycles, so leaving it on the charger a lot is good at that point, or after a ride till the bms cuts off. 100% depth of discharge tends to unbalance a ping more than an 80% discharge. As I've said before, I like to charge it, ride around the block, and charge again with a new battery. Just to get those first 6 or so cycles over with fast, and then ride a long deep discharge only after the battery is balancing quicker.

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Re: Ping 48V15Ah WTF

Post by dnmun » Sep 10 2010 6:32am

the pack does not balance by having the BMS operate on it when the charger is turned off. the BMS balances the pack by providing a shunt around the full inidvidual cells when they have filled up. the idea that you should disconnect the charger in order to make it balance is fundamentally untrue.

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Re: Ping 48V15Ah WTF

Post by 999zip999 » Sep 10 2010 12:13pm

Thanks Guys, I gald I throw that out there. When I take my ping off the chargher it rides 3.80v I let the bms eat down the cells and they end up 3.60v and one 3.59v. So I was understanding that this was a balancing act. I forgot where I read it ? We do want the level to be 3.60v ? And the bms is shunting down the cells to these 3.60v and this is no balancing but just taking off the surface chargh of the cells ? HELP ! A talking froum for the unknowning. Thanks

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Re: Ping 48V15Ah WTF

Post by garyhgaryh » Sep 10 2010 1:43pm

This is a good thread. After unplugging the charger, it took some time before the bms lights to start dancing. LED in the middle (3 and 4) started to blink first. THey were the ones that took the longest to reach a solid led state when charging. About 2 hrs later the led's started to dance alot. It was fun looking at it. By this morning, the only led that was flashing is led #3. No other leds were flashing. What does that tell ya about the battery if led 3 is still flashing after 8+ hrs of being plugged from the charger?
Gary

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Re: Ping 48V15Ah WTF

Post by dogman dan » Sep 10 2010 1:56pm

Tells ya that's a really good cell. It holds onto the surface charge the longest. As soon as I abused my 48v ping a bit, running in a race in Tucscon, It lost just about all ability to hold a surface charge. Now it drops down to the normal voltage of 56v pretty quick. When it was new, I had a few cells that would hold the surface charge all night too.

All you really want is to have all the lights lit before you take it off the charger. Of course at some point, the led may burn out. So even a light that won't light up does not give you any certain information. Only the voltmeter can prove the cells voltage. But when you see all lights lit, that should mean a charged and balanced battery. I did get out the voltmeter though, and found out that on my bms, the lights were all lighting up at about the same voltage. None were way off spec.

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Re: Ping 48V15Ah WTF

Post by garyhgaryh » Sep 10 2010 3:02pm

dogman wrote:Tells ya that's a really good cell. It holds onto the surface charge the longest. As soon as I abused my 48v ping a bit, running in a race in Tucscon, It lost just about all ability to hold a surface charge. Now it drops down to the normal voltage of 56v pretty quick. When it was new, I had a few cells that would hold the surface charge all night too.

All you really want is to have all the lights lit before you take it off the charger. Of course at some point, the led may burn out. So even a light that won't light up does not give you any certain information. Only the voltmeter can prove the cells voltage. But when you see all lights lit, that should mean a charged and balanced battery. I did get out the voltmeter though, and found out that on my bms, the lights were all lighting up at about the same voltage. None were way off spec.
That's good to hear, but why, when charging the battery, this cell (or should i say LED) and the one next to it is the last one to reach solid state? It takes longer to charge and balance that cell?

When you unplug the charger from the battery, the dancing of the LEDs seems to be centered around that very same cell.

When the led's blink, does this mean it's being discharged?

Seems like it's over charging cell #3 (takes longer to charge) and it's taking longer for it to discharge (if flashing means discharging).
Seems like it's negating what it was trying to do in the first place: taking away what it put in.

I guess the only real way to find out what's going on is to measure the voltage of that pouch which is not what I'll be doing anytime soon (but I'm prepared and capable of doing it).

The guy who mentioned that unplugging it seems to be balancing the cells. It would make sense that is what it is doing.

Gary

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Re: Ping 48V15Ah WTF

Post by Cold-E-Commuter » Sep 10 2010 3:15pm

Gary,

I just recently switched my entire bike over to Anderson connectors. I recommend ordering from:
http://www.powerwerx.com/anderson-power ... -contacts/
I ordered a total of 30 cases and contacts and the total was $25 including shipping.
Trek 3700 MTB
NC2806 in 26" Front Hub on Rockshox XC32TC fork w/ Avid BB7 disc brake
Infineon 12xIRFB4110 mosfet controller
Ebikes.ca SS Dual Torque Arm and CA/DP Large Screen Unit
CA Data Logger w/ GPS
Schwalbe Marathon Green Guard tires 26x1.5 at 70 psi

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Cold-E-Commuter   100 W

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Re: Ping 48V15Ah WTF

Post by Cold-E-Commuter » Sep 10 2010 3:42pm

Gary, jus to answer earlier question. The wire protectors were on the battery when recieved. The only things done were to move the BMS to what I consider the top of the battery, add Andersons, and duct tape wires into a configuration suitable for my needs. I am quite impressed with the quality of everything. I have also ordered the hard case from REI and should be here in a few days. They did not have one at the store about a mile from me so they ordered one and it is shipped free to the store on priority shipping. All I have to do is go over and pick it up when it arrives. Cool stuff. I like it when you can save on shipping.
Trek 3700 MTB
NC2806 in 26" Front Hub on Rockshox XC32TC fork w/ Avid BB7 disc brake
Infineon 12xIRFB4110 mosfet controller
Ebikes.ca SS Dual Torque Arm and CA/DP Large Screen Unit
CA Data Logger w/ GPS
Schwalbe Marathon Green Guard tires 26x1.5 at 70 psi

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Re: Ping 48V15Ah WTF

Post by dogman dan » Sep 10 2010 4:54pm

I think a good cell would hold the surface charge longer, but really, they are all good enough. Your battery is new right Gary? It won't be acting "normal" till you get a few cycles on it. It sounds like you have a good pack, sometimes a ping pack will take several charges to get all the led's lit. It's ok. All your led's eventually lit, and they will all light sooner in the future unless you are pulling too much amps. The pack will balance lots faster when it's broken in a bit.

The pack is not balancing when you unplug the charger. But it is losing the surface charge, that will dissapear within less than a second when you twist the throttle. Pings bms is set up to start balancing when the cells get overcharged. How can that start balancing some more when they start to be less charged? If you use an sla charger that doesn't reach 60v, you'll never see the bms doing anything to balance the pack.

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