Ping Battery BMS LVC Level ?

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
Post Reply
999zip999   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 9447
Joined: Jan 10 2010 1:40pm
Location: Dana Point So. Cal

Ping Battery BMS LVC Level ?

Post by 999zip999 » Aug 14 2010 11:00pm

My Ping cut off I checked it at 50.9v is this the cut off point for a V2.5 48v20ah ping with his 60amp. BMS ? Is this at that 80% discharge with 20% for safety ?

User avatar
cell_man   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1036
Joined: Dec 16 2009 12:35pm
Location: Shanghai, China
Contact:

Re: Ping Battery BMS LVC Level ?

Post by cell_man » Aug 15 2010 1:48am

If it's a new pack it probably isn't properly balanced. It only takes 1 series group of cells that are at a lower state of charge to trip a pack. Ho many Ah had you used from the pack?
Visit http://www.EM3ev.com/ for our Ebike Kits and in-house battery packs. Online Shipping quotes to most popular destinations, with automated PayPal checkout.

Browse the site or drop us a line via the contact page: http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route= ... on/contact

999zip999   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 9447
Joined: Jan 10 2010 1:40pm
Location: Dana Point So. Cal

Re: Ping Battery BMS LVC Level ?

Post by 999zip999 » Aug 15 2010 3:05pm

If all is right what is the voltage cutoff of a v2.5 48v20ah ping with this double size 60amp. bms, does it have a higher cutoff ?

dnmun   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 16190
Joined: Jun 09 2008 1:32pm
Location: portland, or and loveland, co

Re: Ping Battery BMS LVC Level ?

Post by dnmun » Aug 15 2010 3:26pm

do not depend on the BMS to protect the battery from over discharge by shutting off the output FETs when one of the cell drops below the individual cell LVC. it may not shut off and you would damage a cell that way.

you should make sure that the pack is balanced before using too much capacity, follow the simple rule-multiple short discharge, then long charge cycles until you can confirm it is balanced.

jmho.

999zip999   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 9447
Joined: Jan 10 2010 1:40pm
Location: Dana Point So. Cal

Re: Ping Battery BMS LVC Level ?

Post by 999zip999 » Aug 15 2010 3:58pm

Someone stepup, I'm very new to this the frist cell to hit 3.31v the frist cell to hit 2.99v what is it ? At this point look for low cell if it is the replaced cell on the end manybe i could single cell charge it through the balance wires with low amp. cell phone chargher ? I mine after it's fully charghed and check for balance ?

User avatar
docnjoj   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5787
Joined: Sep 29 2007 5:26pm
Location: Fairhope AL

Re: Ping Battery BMS LVC Level ?

Post by docnjoj » Aug 15 2010 5:01pm

You really need to follow the slow break in ploy as suggested. You also need to monitor each cell if it is a new pack. I had one cell that went to 3.9 when all others were 3.5 to 3.6 and I had to discharge this cell with a load till it matched the others. The BMS then did it's job and my 36 volt split Ping stays in balance.
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

BikeFanatic   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 408
Joined: Nov 19 2011 10:58am
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Ping Battery BMS LVC Level ?

Post by BikeFanatic » Aug 15 2010 5:48pm

You need to put the battery on the charger and let it charge and balance, maybe over night or longer. I do not know the exact
cut off voltage but what happens is one or two cells are low ( and if you keep pushing them, they can die) I had the same issue
with a new ping pack. But once balanced, they work well.

you could open the top and check each cell group, say after charging and balancing see if one cell group needs to be Topped
off as you say with a cell phone charger. But i think you may just try what everyone else is saying and discharge short tripsand then charge all night. If you monitor the charger it will charge up in say 2 hours then will cycle on and off to balance the pack.

you have many kilometers in that pack but maybe do not test the range so early.

I am not an expert but I own two pings one has a weak cell group but runs well with occasional requires single cell group charging

999zip999   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 9447
Joined: Jan 10 2010 1:40pm
Location: Dana Point So. Cal

Re: Ping Battery BMS LVC Level ?

Post by 999zip999 » Aug 16 2010 11:55pm

After I run my ping till cutoff 50.4v ? I charghed it full and let the bms eat it down than run it 2mi. charghed and let the bms bleed the battery down O.K. Checked it at 58.6v the cells all 3.59v but the new end one that i replaced 6mos. ago the pos. end of the split pack (4 cells of 5ooomah. = one of the 16 cells of a ping ) and it read 3.6v so I unpluged the 8 wire plug of balance wires and fround the 3.6v pins and put a 12v con. tester for a car with a little bulb. It drain it down to 3.58v plugged plugged it in and played for 6mi. it worked , I will see the results in the next couple of cycles. Next will buy a ca. zero $.

User avatar
dogman dan   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 35627
Joined: May 17 2008 12:53pm
Location: Las Cruces New Mexico USA

Re: Ping Battery BMS LVC Level ?

Post by dogman dan » Aug 17 2010 6:14am

OK, so it's not a new pack break in problem. But you do have one cell out of balance enough to trip the bms to shut off. I can't remember for sure the cut off, but I think it's somewhere in the 2.5 to 3v area. Once they go to 3v, they are about to drop off the cliff, so it's possible ping sets a higher cutoff on a higher amp bms. Seems like my 48v 15 ah ping cuts off right about 48v, so mabye the cutoff is closer to 3v than 2.5.

BikeFanatic   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 408
Joined: Nov 19 2011 10:58am
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Ping Battery BMS LVC Level ?

Post by BikeFanatic » Aug 17 2010 6:46am

zip,
It sounds like the pack is balanced? Are you having a problem with the pack?
If you could monitor under load conditions then you could figure out cut off and how many Amp hours /watts you can pull from the pack.

The turnigy watt meters are much cheaper than the cycle analyst 24$ and 6$ shipping to USA.

999zip999   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 9447
Joined: Jan 10 2010 1:40pm
Location: Dana Point So. Cal

Re: Ping Battery BMS LVC Level ?

Post by 999zip999 » Aug 19 2010 12:51am

Yes the Battery came off the chargher 61.1v wow let it bleed down 3.6v mostly two at 3.95 so it's back in bussines. Will have check out this cutout at 50.9v later on long test ride. Dogmen I get what you said if a cell is dropping with a 40amp. bms and dropping off with a 60amp. it would like to have a little more room not to crash the cell.

999zip999   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 9447
Joined: Jan 10 2010 1:40pm
Location: Dana Point So. Cal

Re: Ping Battery BMS LVC Level ?

Post by 999zip999 » Aug 23 2010 10:49pm

I found the problem. I have a ping 48v20ah split pack. One pack has a 8 pin connector to connect to the bms board the pins inside were shorten out at times it was going 1.2v to 6.3v but most of the time it read 3.6v like a ghost only at times. I closed the pins and it's good. I do not like these clear white connectors like the one on my bmc hub it did the same thing. Who has a good 8 pin connector ? Thanks for the help.

999zip999   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 9447
Joined: Jan 10 2010 1:40pm
Location: Dana Point So. Cal

Re: Ping Battery BMS LVC Level ?

Post by 999zip999 » Aug 26 2010 12:11pm

O.K. it was the 8 pin connection. It was hard to detect having a good conection most of the time. This might be the reason why the split pack has problems . The 8 pin connector can have ghost relationships with half of the bms making true balance hard. I would ask ping for a new 8 pin with the tails and 16 pin for the whole battery. But I will have the same weak link. what are my choses on the 8 pin connector with the 16 pin singalab plug for the bms with all the wires long enough for a 16in. long split pack ? Could be the short fall of the ping split pack ? Oh I forgot the pack is full and as New after 14 mos. later it is strong again!!! I was going past a speed sign up a little hill at 43mph peddling hard. Wow My ping is back.

999zip999   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 9447
Joined: Jan 10 2010 1:40pm
Location: Dana Point So. Cal

Re: Ping Battery BMS LVC Level ?

Post by 999zip999 » Sep 16 2010 12:16am

Yea Dogman,I got a new C.A. so I did a distance test. I had the bms cutoff at 51.4v all cells were 3.2v but one 2.7v you said it would be one low cell.#16 the pos. end one on the split pack. I might had a small problem when I replaced that cell. But that might be my weak link. I'm only getting 14.5ah out of my pack. 48v20ah split. Also turned down the controller to 25amp. but it still hit 30amp. Illila said that's normal ? And set the volts to cutoff at 41v. I guess I play with cell tring to balance it and it hit 4.1v for 2 seconds but right before my eyes on a spike real fast you know 3.80v then 4.1v zip ? Was that it ? I have a set of cells to replace that one but will also need the new 8 pin and all the wires to the 16 pin white bms plug maybe ping would sell me the wire harnes ? And a 5amp. chargher is that the good one ? Thanks All.

User avatar
dogman dan   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 35627
Joined: May 17 2008 12:53pm
Location: Las Cruces New Mexico USA

Re: Ping Battery BMS LVC Level ?

Post by dogman dan » Sep 16 2010 5:24am

Yeah, that one weak cell is causing you to lose 5 ah of range.

I'd be tempted to just solder the wires and ditch the plugs, but I don't need to unplug and store my battery over the winter.

Pings 5 amp charger is a good one. Should be able to fully charge your battery in about 4-5 hours.

The CA will record very short amp spikes, which the controller them pulls down to the controllers amperage. If you hammer it hard enough, you can see amp spikes on the CA that are double the controllers rating. But normal riding usually produces amps that are no more than 5 amps over the controller rating. Looking at your max amps is one way to get feedback on how to ride more efficient. The lower the max amps, the smoother you are riding.

dnmun   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 16190
Joined: Jun 09 2008 1:32pm
Location: portland, or and loveland, co

Re: Ping Battery BMS LVC Level ?

Post by dnmun » Sep 16 2010 8:24am

if you order a BMS from ping, he includes the sense wire plug with the pigtails. if you bot a pack from him with a v2.5 signalab, he may sell you one, but otherwise i think he only sells the v1, and saves the v2.5 for new sales.

999zip999   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 9447
Joined: Jan 10 2010 1:40pm
Location: Dana Point So. Cal

Re: Ping Battery BMS LVC Level ?

Post by 999zip999 » Sep 16 2010 12:04pm

I charghed the pack it reads 61.3v hot off the chargher. After all the led are blinking, with the C.A. on it bleeds the top charge off faster.( ? ). O.k. the cells are all 3.61v but pos.cell #16 at 3.78v the same that was at 2.7v last night with all the rest were at 3.2v. After bms cutoff at 51.4v. Will this harm the rest of the cells ? My I use my pack without more damage ? O-no!!! This cell will not repair itself ? Who is willing to take on all these unknowns ? Thanks

Post Reply