Which high capacity 18650 cell for 250w ebike battery pack with heavy usage?

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
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Matador   10 kW

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Re: Which high capacity 18650 cell for 250w ebike battery pack with heavy usage?

Post by Matador » May 11 2019 6:40pm

vulcanears wrote:
May 11 2019 8:52am
Thank you so much for your insight, everyone :)
I ride 100km on long days, but I live right in the city center, so I can swap battery packs at home once or twice a day. So I thought the best option was to get 2 packs around 600Wh-700Wh each and cycle them between 4.1V and 3.3V.

I would like to go with Reention or Hailong battery packs, because I find the form factor very convenient. (If there are better options out there, I'm always grateful for brainstorm inspiration!) They come with 18650 cell holders, so using different battery sizes would mean a lot more work when building packs.
vulcanears wrote:
May 11 2019 3:26pm
Image
This frame with different components. Rear rack is a possibility.
It is so true tha have one bigger battery instead of two small will give 4 times more lifetime to the battery pack, as other have mentionned. The battery will only live halve the stress than two big ones.

You maentionned reintion or hailong pack. You can probably pack 10S6P in those at most....
I would say, with the range you need, build yourselve a triangle frame pack and put 10S8P or 10S10P or 10S12P inside of it...
With that much in parallel, for only a 250W setup, Panasonic GA cells will be more than enough, but really, find the cheapest name brand cell you can find and it will be fine (by brand name, I mean the Big Four: Either Panasonic, Sony, Sanyo, LG-Chem or Samsung... oops that was five).

Build something like that, It will be super reliable and you will never worry about range :


I onced had a 250W eBike in New York City. Battery was 10S10P,I remembered how my ass was hurting after I rode the bike for 65 km straight to try to test range the battery.... Still had some juice...
Here was that eBike: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=89258

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john61ct   100 GW

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Re: Which high capacity 18650 cell for 250w ebike battery pack with heavy usage?

Post by john61ct » May 11 2019 10:11pm

Wow great thread cool bikes, crazy stupid laws, so sorry for your troubles there!

So worth checking out local laws, crazy for someone like me wants to van-dwell with ebikes around the country and overseas.

Stealth mode, swappable drive trains, makes things lots more complicated

hemo   100 W

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Re: Which high capacity 18650 cell for 250w ebike battery pack with heavy usage?

Post by hemo » May 12 2019 4:12am

I use Pinnacle Arkose for day rides out and use a 24v friction dive, battery is 208wh PF cells for lighter weight bike.
With 700m of climbing I can get about 26 miles range and carry a spare battery in the seat bag. Battery and drive 2.5kg added to bike.
DSCF0976.JPG
DSCF0976.JPG (111.24 KiB) Viewed 644 times
For cycle delivery locally think about small battery for lightness if you are able to charge and swap batteries during the day. My samll PF 208wh about 4 hrs to max charge from empty and 80% in two hours.

700wh should be able do you about 80 miles if you are a fit regular cyclist, I'm not a lycra cyclist and about 13st with Asthma and can still manage a decent use of 9wh/m. Each extra kg you carry means more to lug around, try and keep your bike as light as possible and swap a smaller battery over once or twice during the day.

Most decent cells with regular use and a good charge /discharge regime should manage the three years you talk of.

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Matador   10 kW

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Re: Which high capacity 18650 cell for 250w ebike battery pack with heavy usage?

Post by Matador » May 12 2019 6:04am

john61ct wrote:
May 11 2019 10:11pm
Wow great thread cool bikes, crazy stupid laws, so sorry for your troubles there!

So worth checking out local laws, crazy for someone like me wants to van-dwell with ebikes around the country and overseas.

Stealth mode, swappable drive trains, makes things lots more complicated
Move out of NYC! No more stupid e-Bike laws for me. So glad I left NYC so I don't have to deal with the stupid laws and the cops who apply them like robots.

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: Which high capacity 18650 cell for 250w ebike battery pack with heavy usage?

Post by john61ct » May 12 2019 2:56pm

Well many are tied to a high income gig tgat does not allow working remotely,

and longer daily commutes are a PITA.

Living within walking distance to your job is a fantasy for the 85% of USians that now live in urban areas, and in well-paying metros the affordable-rent challenge is the key to (ever) being able to retire.

vulcanears   10 mW

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Re: Which high capacity 18650 cell for 250w ebike battery pack with heavy usage?

Post by vulcanears » May 12 2019 6:48pm

hemo wrote:
May 12 2019 4:12am
I use Pinnacle Arkose for day rides out and use a 24v friction dive, battery is 208wh PF cells for lighter weight bike.
With 700m of climbing I can get about 26 miles range and carry a spare battery in the seat bag. Battery and drive 2.5kg added to bike.

DSCF0976.JPG

For cycle delivery locally think about small battery for lightness if you are able to charge and swap batteries during the day. My samll PF 208wh about 4 hrs to max charge from empty and 80% in two hours.

700wh should be able do you about 80 miles if you are a fit regular cyclist, I'm not a lycra cyclist and about 13st with Asthma and can still manage a decent use of 9wh/m. Each extra kg you carry means more to lug around, try and keep your bike as light as possible and swap a smaller battery over once or twice during the day.

Most decent cells with regular use and a good charge /discharge regime should manage the three years you talk of.
Ha, awesome bike :)
I live in England as well, btw. In Brighton to be exact. I'm a pretty fit cyclist and somehow survive 60 mile days without motor, but i want to do my knees a favor and give them some motor-support on the Brighton hills.

At the moment I ride a 8kg cannondale road bike. The thought of handling a 30kg ebike with a 150 cell frame battery pack is not very appealing to me at the moment.

hemo   100 W

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Re: Which high capacity 18650 cell for 250w ebike battery pack with heavy usage?

Post by hemo » May 13 2019 10:51am

I'm not to far north of you the pic of Arkose is at Ardingly reservoir.
I'm fully acquainted with Brighton and it's hilly climbs and is a part of a regular circuit of mine for riding.

I would if living locally and able to swap over/recharge is go light as possible no use dragging heavy bike up hills if using it locally. For Brighton's hilly terrain use a small 3 or 4 p 10s battery with 20a cells so you don't stress them too much aim for 20 - 30 mile range and have a spare charged to swap over.
A light 3 or 4 p battery can be charged to near full in about 3.5 - 4 hrs depending on SOC to start with.
Samsung 25R or Sanyo UR18650NSX cells, a 3p pack is approx. 270wh and at respectable 9 wh/m usage rate should give 25 - 30 miles, a fit rider should be able to get that down to maybe 6 or 7wh/m.


Have a chat with Darren at brightonebikes he specialises in Bafang BBS.

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Re: Which high capacity 18650 cell for 250w ebike battery pack with heavy usage?

Post by hemo » May 13 2019 10:56am

vulcanears wrote:
May 10 2019 8:11am
The controller is 7A continuous, 15A peak. (Which is the legal limit in the EU)
Can you show the regs that state 15a peak is the legal limit afaik the only regs are motor has to rated 250w and max 48v. Not see any stipulated figures for contoller amps.

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Re: Which high capacity 18650 cell for 250w ebike battery pack with heavy usage?

Post by vulcanears » May 13 2019 11:34am

hemo wrote:
May 13 2019 10:56am
vulcanears wrote:
May 10 2019 8:11am
The controller is 7A continuous, 15A peak. (Which is the legal limit in the EU)
Can you show the regs that state 15a peak is the legal limit afaik the only regs are motor has to rated 250w and max 48v. Not see any stipulated figures for contoller amps.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... cycles.pdf
General requirements- EAPC Classification
The EAPC Regulations2 as amended3 set out the requirements that EAPCs must satisfy if they are not to be treated as motor vehicles when used on roads in GB - i.e. do not need to be licensed and registered etc. The requirements are:
• The cycle must be fitted with pedals that are capable of propelling it.
• The maximum continuous rated power of the electric motor must not exceed 250 Watts.
• The electrical assistance must cut-off when the vehicle reaches 15.5 mph.
You are right - there is no legal requirement for maximum controller Amperage, so i could buy a beefier controller for my Bafang G310.
And apparently there is no Voltage restriction.

hemo   100 W

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Re: Which high capacity 18650 cell for 250w ebike battery pack with heavy usage?

Post by hemo » May 13 2019 4:49pm

EU regs I think do state 48v max but no one for sure knows if that is a nominal voltage or not.
UK seller Woosh sell 250w 48v nom kits so they have taken the regs as nominal.

I would be inclined to use 22 or 25a KT 9 FET dual volt sinewave controller, the 6 fet ones tend to get very hot in hilly terrain esp with full power.

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flippy   1 MW

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Re: Which high capacity 18650 cell for 250w ebike battery pack with heavy usage?

Post by flippy » May 15 2019 11:02am

i have not found a voltage limit in the EU regs, only power rated in Watts.
there is a different reg that does impose that you need certification if you have to work on high(ish) voltages.
i think the main reason is that there is no reason to increase the voltage. 7A can pass on a 2mm cable easy.
Lithium beats liquid dinosaurs.

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