The keto thread

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » Jul 18 2019 2:43pm

Mostly carnivore keto ( ~10g of carbs/day, ~85% calories from meat ) has worked too well. I've gained muscle and lost weight at the same time, despite the fact that i haven't seen the inside of a gym in 6 months. You can see the muscle in my face too. I've begun to lose the baby face look.

..except i didn't intend to lose any weight. I just don't have an appetite on this low of carbs.

But running a caloric deficit is a really bad idea if you're trying to recover from a bone fracture. :x
So either i go back to my 30-50g/day lazy keto diet, or i do calorie counting just so that i eat enough :roll: ... i'm taking the lazy keto option because counting calories is a pain in the ass.

It's funny to have this problem, because when i was a carb-ivore, i could never stop eating and gaining weight. I felt hungry every hour.. losing or even maintaining weight was impossible to do. It would have eventually disabled, and then killed me to continue to eat that way.

I think the old meathead assertions about a steak and egg bodybuilding diet being the ultimate thing for body re composition is correct. I can't wait to get back on ultra low carb, or maybe even zero carb once my bone is healed up, cuz it not only edges me towards looking shredded, but mentally it feels a lot better than regular keto :thumb:
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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » Jul 25 2019 8:27pm

Just got out of the second surgery on my leg. The guy administering my nerve blocker said i have beautiful nerves. Not something that someone who was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes is used to hearing. Either i healed from the damage that was done, or caught the disease early enough in the process that the nerve destruction never happened :thumb:

Blood sugar was 79 going in, 79 going out. Last time it was 80 going in, 80 going out. Absolutely rock solid steady.

I've now had a dozen people looked at my blood work, cut me open, look at the fine vessels in the back of my eyeballs, etc and tell me that i am not a diabetic. I think at this point, i am willing to believe them, and stop disclosing that i'm a diabetic.

My insulin resistance is of course still crap, so i think of myself as a few slices of bread away from being sick again. In the same way that alcoholics anonymous still considers you an alcoholic even when you are sober. The disease is always waiting for you, if you invite it back into your life. I am happy to have 6 years of relief from it :D
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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » Jul 30 2019 5:24pm

Me and my wife cheated at an indian restaurant, and it felt worse than any other cheat we've ever done. I realized that the food was very similar to my holier than thou vegetarian diet, since i'd based my diet then around this idealistic view of Indian vegetarianism, like many clueless westerners are ought to do.



Side note: ketogenic diets are exploding in popularity in India as of writing. So it's interesting that they are also undergoing a shift in mentality over there as well.
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Re: The keto thread

Post by Dauntless » Jul 31 2019 7:06pm

neptronix wrote:
Jul 25 2019 8:27pm
The guy administering my nerve blocker said i have beautiful nerves. Not something that someone who was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes is used to hearing. Either i healed from the damage that was done, or caught the disease early enough in the process that the nerve destruction never happened :thumb:
Meanwhile, in last night's debate, Bernie went on about going to Canada to buy state subsidized insulin and railing about healthcare/pharmaceuticals that are profitable, but not a word about giving up dependence on them. People who stop with the crap don't have to care about how much crap costs, Bernie.
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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » Jul 31 2019 9:26pm

Dauntless wrote:
Jul 31 2019 7:06pm
Meanwhile, in last night's debate, Bernie went on about going to Canada to buy state subsidized insulin and railing about healthcare/pharmaceuticals that are profitable, but not a word about giving up dependence on them. People who stop with the crap don't have to care about how much crap costs, Bernie.
Yup. Every time i hear a story about insulin prices, i let out a big sigh. 95% of the people who use insulin don't need it. Even type 1 diabetics could use less by eating a diet that's appropriate for their biology.

We have quite a few type 1 diabetics in our local keto community who say they've reduced their insulin demands by 50-75%. So even they can get a price cut, if they want it. And greater health as a bonus.

But that would require responsibility, or perhaps change; and most people don't like that. They want a magic government man to save them from themselves and from the bad guys. Enter Bernie Sanders, the ultimate panderer to those who view the world through the lens of a hapless victim. :roll:
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Re: The keto thread

Post by Grantmac » Aug 01 2019 12:37am

You do realize that insulin prices aren't subsidised in Canada right? They are simply regulated to a fair (and still very profitable) value.
Let's not forget that people literally die due to the cost of Epi pens and cancer drugs in the US. There isn't a diet which can fix that (we'll the cancer is debatable).

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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » Aug 01 2019 1:11am

Grantmac wrote:
Aug 01 2019 12:37am
You do realize that insulin prices aren't subsidised in Canada right? They are simply regulated to a fair (and still very profitable) value.
Let's not forget that people literally die due to the cost of Epi pens and cancer drugs in the US. There isn't a diet which can fix that (we'll the cancer is debatable).
Yes our health system is screwed, in multiple dimensions. If i had to describe the USA's entire health problem in one word, it'd be this:

corruption

When you have coca cola helping determine nutritional policy, and health insurance companies writing their own regulations, and industry hijacking health organizations. The word for it is not stupidity, maybe not even malice ( although it is indirectly malicious ), it's corruption. Because without government, large industries and individual corporations would not have a way to push this country towards their desires: more patients, more procedures, more pills, more food products ( especially ultra processed food because the shelf life is high and the profit margin is even higher ).

I don't even think that big pharma and big ag/foodtech work hand in hand. They just accidentally create profit streams for each other by chance. They make/keep people sick because it's more profitable, not because they're evil. And with zero protection from our government from predatory business models ( because of bribes ), well.... that's how we get a system like this.

Congressional candidates get tons of pharma and food interest money stuffed in their pockets every year, across the aisles. Just browse along opensecrets.org and look at who is giving money to who; it's a horror show that will forever put a bitter taste in your mouth for politics as a whole.


I think the most important thing of all is losing your trust in the authoritarian diet dogma and taking your health into your own hands. People believe the food pyramid is a valid thing only because they have it shoved down their throats all their lives like it was a religion. Examine it with any level of scientific scrutiny and the whole case falls completely apart. The truth is that you're on you're own. Don't wait for a politician in the federal government to fix things - consider their track record..

Go figure, the food pyramid and all this insanity was dreamed up by a vegan senator from a wheat, soy, and corn producing state.
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Re: The keto thread

Post by Dauntless » Aug 01 2019 1:36am

neptronix wrote:
Aug 01 2019 1:11am
I think the most important thing of all is losing your trust in the authoritarian diet dogma . . . .
Grantmac wrote:
Aug 01 2019 12:37am
You do realize that insulin prices aren't subsidised in Canada right?
Why no, I realize something else, actually. https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/ ... plies.html
neptronix wrote:
Aug 01 2019 1:11am
. . . .only because they have it shoved down their throats all their lives like it was a religion.
Dogma is a drug that people are also addicted to. I doubt I ever had a chance to put a dent in one addiction here, but I do my best.
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Re: The keto thread

Post by Dauntless » Aug 09 2019 12:27am

Any sufficiently advanced technology is INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM MAGIC!
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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » Aug 09 2019 12:52pm

That was a damned good article. I shared that with my keto group. :)
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Re: The keto thread

Post by billvon » Aug 09 2019 12:57pm

neptronix wrote:
Aug 01 2019 1:11am
Yes our health system is screwed, in multiple dimensions. If i had to describe the USA's entire health problem in one word, it'd be this:

corruption
But then you say:
I don't even think that big pharma and big ag/foodtech work hand in hand. They just accidentally create profit streams for each other by chance. They make/keep people sick because it's more profitable, not because they're evil.
And I think that's right. That's not corruption, that's capitalism doing what it does best - making money.
--bill von

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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » Aug 09 2019 2:26pm

The posts had two different contexts which are important to understand.

I'm saying our government is corrupt and the conspiracy is not to make us sick intentionally, but it worked out that way because nobody at the top of the chain gives enough of a shit to do anything about it or even thought about the big picture.

We have no evidence that coca cola and nordisk were working hand in hand.

We have evidence that coca cola bought seats on nutrition boards who supervise and perscribe how dieticians are trained. Including some at universities and government levels. This is where the catch phrases 'calories in calories out' and 'eat less move more' came from. ( i like to call this the human metabolism as bomb calorimeter theory )

We know that novo nordisk buys influence at the american diabetes association and is working hard to prevent them from speaking favorably about low carb, because their business model depends on people not knowing about natural solutions that completely eliminate the need for their product.

The two work together to keep you dependent on their products for their own selfish reasons. And of course the government is a guilty party for allowing it's power to be up for sale.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

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Re: The keto thread

Post by Dauntless » Aug 14 2019 10:07pm

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/14/us/fresn ... index.html

Always seems so comic someone would eat himself to death, but he's still gone. Doesn't really make sense, I'd expect it to turn out heart trouble.

It would be easy to think he swallowed shards of taco shells that shredded in internally. . . .
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Re: The keto thread

Post by Dauntless » Sep 02 2019 5:51pm

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Re: The keto thread

Post by John in CR » Sep 23 2019 5:54pm

Hi to all you Keto converts. After having great success with Whole30 last year, afterward I didn't stick to it and that old sugar dragon came right back. I didn't like 0 cheese and 0 alcohol as a long-term solution, and the science seems to back Keto more, so I'm giving it a go...Just getting started and I have 2 questions. How long did it take for your body to switch into ketosis? Could you tell that the changeover occurred without getting a blood test? I ask because I want to rapid shed the fat I picked back up, so once I'm in ketosis I want to add in some fasting, something I've never ever done. My 95 year old grandma who still mows her own grass has fasted 1 day a week her whole life, so I'd like to add it to my arsenal of healthy living, but don't dare try fasting without being in ketosis. Why even fast if I need to carbo load the day before to be productive on a fasting day?

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Re: The keto thread

Post by Matt Gruber » Sep 25 2019 10:14am

Hi John,
Fasting has great reviews, but, do you have things to do with all the free time you will have?
I'm retired, so eating, buying and growing food, and cooking takes up half the day :lol:
I'd be instantly bored if i had 20 extra pounds to get rid of. :mrgreen:
Converted window AC's to central system.
Reversed insulin resistance and heart disease by limiting calories from fat to 7%. Thanks to Dr Mcdougall, Dr Esselstyn, Dr Barnard, Dr Greger, Dr Ornish and Nathan Pritikin. (all on YouTube)
Favorite foods: corn, potatoes, sweet potatoes, onions, cabbage, broccoli, lintels, black beans, mushrooms, cherries, mangoes, bananas, pineapples, blueberries, strawberries, pasta, home made rolls and no-fat chips.

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Re: The keto thread

Post by Grantmac » Sep 25 2019 12:38pm

My fasting periods are when I have the most energy. I'm not hard keto, just 100gr or less of quality carbs a day.

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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » Sep 25 2019 12:52pm

John in CR wrote:
Sep 23 2019 5:54pm
Hi to all you Keto converts. After having great success with Whole30 last year, afterward I didn't stick to it and that old sugar dragon came right back. I didn't like 0 cheese and 0 alcohol as a long-term solution, and the science seems to back Keto more, so I'm giving it a go...Just getting started and I have 2 questions. How long did it take for your body to switch into ketosis? Could you tell that the changeover occurred without getting a blood test? I ask because I want to rapid shed the fat I picked back up, so once I'm in ketosis I want to add in some fasting, something I've never ever done. My 95 year old grandma who still mows her own grass has fasted 1 day a week her whole life, so I'd like to add it to my arsenal of healthy living, but don't dare try fasting without being in ketosis. Why even fast if I need to carbo load the day before to be productive on a fasting day?
Hey John;

Keto is the light and the way. It's based on scientific principles, whereas most diets are very loosely based on anything scientific, and usually have a lot of weird food voodoos attached that don't make much sense. As far as diets go, you could do a lot worse than whole30 though; moving in sort of a paleo direction would be good for everyone.

Of course in modern times, there are a lot of shucksters promoting keto and adding their own food voodoos to make them sound like they know some secret nobody else knows. But really, keto is just about changing your macronutrients in order to modulate how your metabolism works - which translates into a huge array of beneficial physiological changes. A 'carnivore diet' is just a more extreme expression of keto.

It took me a week to switch to ketosis. I was deeply diabetic and sugar dominant, and never experienced the keto flu. I actually had an entire week of a euphoric feeling. Apparently this is not common. AFAIK 'keto flu' is a lack of electrolytes that comes when you first start dumping out a lot of stored water. The most critical and most neglected of these electrolytes is potassium ( 6 years later, i still supplement it! ).

I never did blood tests, but i did urine strips early on. Both me and my wife lit the fuckin' thangs up. Later on, the urine strip is no longer useful, because your body becomes very efficient at utilizing ketones and therefore doesn't excrete them, even if you are eating zero carbs.

I never carb load, but i practice intermittent fasting, IE 2 meals a day, and no snacks unless i'd undereaten and am starving. One meal a day seems to be more popular than the way i do things.

When i am done healing this bone fracture, i want to do some heroic multi day fasting myself.

I have been on a ketogenic diet for the last 6 years and i'll tell you that if i go back to carbs, i gain weight with extreme rapidity and have extreme problems with my appetite control, just like i did when i was a carb-ivore! If i remain compliant with the diet ( under 50g carbs/day, preferably less ), i experience effortless weight maintenance and have zero medication or treatment needs for type 2 diabetes. So i decided to stay on the diet permanently for my health.

My mother has a few autoimmune issues and also has the 'fat storage gene'. She's on keto full time as well, and it has had huge benefits with her autoimmunes.
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Re: The keto thread

Post by John in CR » Sep 26 2019 12:33am

neptronix wrote:
Sep 25 2019 12:52pm
...i want to do some heroic multi day fasting myself....
Thanks Nep. I'll be thinking long and hard just to do one day, since never in my almost 59yrs have I gone 24hrs or more without food. My son is married to what seems like a quack nutrionist, great girl but the really weird stuff they eat makes me go "WTF???". He had put on a bunch of weight and told me a while back that he did a 7 day fast to get into ketosis and lose the weight, but I just thought "What?" and didn't even know what ketosis was at the time.

I'm definitely in the Keto flu stage and feeling like crap, just like I did around the same time on Whole30, so I attribute it mostly to my body saying "where's the sugar" regardless of for. Thanks for the electrolyte input, I need to be sure to pick up a fresh young coconut tomorrow for the delicious water and jelly meat for some fiber. Eggs spinach cheese and a beef patty made today's eating a breeze on the food side, since it was raining big time most of the day and had no desire to go out, probably a safe thing anyway with this brain fog I can literally feel.

I doubt I ever went into ketosis on Whole30 with all the bananas and veggies I was eating. I had no idea of their carb load until looking it up during research of what I can eat. I've kept steamed peeled eggs ready in the fridge for a long time, so a can of sardines is an easy replacement for bananas as a quick and easy snack.

Once I hit my target weight I'll have to figure out how to add back some of the fruits and veggies I have to forgo for a strict keto. There's just too much good stuff fresh, cheap, and readily available down here. Stuff grows incredibly well here. I mean people walking down the street on their way somewhere will stop and pick something to eat. We live on a cul de sac and have a tree across the street with a rarish fruit that people come just to get the fruit. I had to fight with a family of racoons over the avocados from our three 50-60ft avocado trees in the backyard that just finished bearing fruit. Our big Akita loved eating the ones the coons dropped. Next year the coon hunt will definitely be on during the 2 week July vacation break for "little summer", our short indian summer before rainy season really kicks in.

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Re: The keto thread

Post by Matt Gruber » Nov 03 2019 1:54pm

ONE meal cured ED :shock:
just trying to help you guys, please don't be offended 8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu5iKKoNfBU
Converted window AC's to central system.
Reversed insulin resistance and heart disease by limiting calories from fat to 7%. Thanks to Dr Mcdougall, Dr Esselstyn, Dr Barnard, Dr Greger, Dr Ornish and Nathan Pritikin. (all on YouTube)
Favorite foods: corn, potatoes, sweet potatoes, onions, cabbage, broccoli, lintels, black beans, mushrooms, cherries, mangoes, bananas, pineapples, blueberries, strawberries, pasta, home made rolls and no-fat chips.

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Re: The keto thread

Post by markz » Nov 03 2019 10:20pm

Anyone try Shirataki Noodles?
Suppose to be mainly water and 1g of carb, they were using 28g/1ounce for reference points.

I am going to see tomorrow if my local grocery store sells it, if not then I need to head deep into the slums/the hood to a T&T grocery store which caters to asian foods.

If I remember, I will eat 3 eggs in the morning. Eggs are the healthiest ideal food from what I read. 1 large egg = 1g carb
My treats are dark 70% cocoa chocolate.
I buy the big olives from Costco.
I love all types of cheeses!

I use way to much dressing on salads.

Starting to buy the wraps at subway now, but deli sliced meats are not "recommended" as they have too much perservatives from what I read and it makes sense.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirataki_noodles
hirataki (白滝, often written with the hiragana しらたき) are thin, translucent, gelatinous traditional Japanese noodles made from the konjac yam (devil's tongue yam or elephant yam).[1] The word "shirataki" means white waterfall, referring to the appearance of these noodles. Largely composed of water and glucomannan, a water-soluble dietary fiber, they are very low in digestible carbohydrates and calories, and have little flavor of their own.[2][3][4]

Shirataki noodles come in dry and soft "wet" forms in Asian markets and some supermarkets. When purchased wet, they are packaged in liquid. They normally have a shelf life of up to one year. Some brands require rinsing or parboiling, as the water in the packaging has an odor some find unpleasant.[5][6][7]

The noodles can also be drained and dry-roasted, which diminishes bitterness and gives the noodles a more pasta-like consistency. Dry-roasted noodles can be served in soup stock or a sauce.[8]

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Re: The keto thread

Post by Grantmac » Nov 04 2019 12:55am

I've been eating parsnips roasted as French fries, but someone turned me onto Daikon radishes instead. Less carbs, way cheaper and perhaps more potato-like. I want to try them in my air fryer next.

Usually I eat them poutine style with cheese and gravy.

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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » Nov 04 2019 3:09pm

Grantmac wrote:
Nov 04 2019 12:55am
I've been eating parsnips roasted as French fries, but someone turned me onto Daikon radishes instead. Less carbs, way cheaper and perhaps more potato-like. I want to try them in my air fryer next.

Usually I eat them poutine style with cheese and gravy.
A guy in my keto group just turned me on to that and i had my lady make some.. it really turned out well, as a nice side to a steak! :thumb:
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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » Nov 04 2019 3:23pm

markz wrote:
Nov 03 2019 10:20pm
Anyone try Shirataki Noodles?
Suppose to be mainly water and 1g of carb, they were using 28g/1ounce for reference points.

I am going to see tomorrow if my local grocery store sells it, if not then I need to head deep into the slums/the hood to a T&T grocery store which caters to asian foods.
Yeah, me and my ex wife used to make italian, asian, etc foods using those and found that to be the most agreeable option to us. They worked pretty well.

These days i keep keto very simple, so i can't be of much help with these substitute type foods. I'm a steak and salad kinda guy. :)
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
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Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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Re: The keto thread

Post by markz » Nov 04 2019 8:53pm

I have lost a few belt notches and had to make my own holes
:D

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