The keto thread

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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » Apr 27 2019 9:43am

Grantmac wrote:
Apr 26 2019 12:40pm
I've never been obese but no matter how much I exercise I've always been heavy in the gut and experienced joint pain. I've generally eaten very "healthy" foods.
Going low carb changed my life entirely. All the work I was putting in finally made a difference. I didn't need to "fuel" all the time. I finally don't have a gut, I'm not hungry and my digestion isn't upset all the time.
No single thing has been as positive as simply reducing my carbs below 100g a day and focusing on quality.

The one downside is a slightly reduced ability to recover from heavy lifting but I generally cycle in a bit more carbs at lunch those days which is my first meal and eaten after working out.
:thumb:

Same experience here. Going low carb bought me 6 years to deal with the cause of my arthritis. It made me functional, and i finally started going to the gym. I do creatine and citruline to help with recovery between reps ( i do 5x5 )

My digestion is a hell of a lot better. I used to fart all the frocking time when i was a vegetarian. Could not digest that diet at all.

I am actually at a keto conference as we speak in between speakers. The array of things keto appears to help with is insane. I finally got a scientific explanation as to why eating the low carb way has saved me from the heart disease i developed in my teens. ( i used to eat a lot of sugar ). Will post some vids/pics when i get a moment.
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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » Apr 27 2019 9:50am

I read the eat-lancet report. It is a reaffirmation of the food pyramid and a lot of the usual 60 year old misconceptions about macronutrients which were based on falsified science ( and ignoring new science ).
The lancet has always been against dietary cures for type 2 diabetes ever since the idea was conceived.

If you do not have type 2 diabetes or any other condition related to perpetually elevated glucose or insulin ( most Americans are showing signs of this today ), then by all means eat the lancet diet if it is working for you.
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Re: The keto thread

Post by Grantmac » Apr 27 2019 11:37am

I haven't tried any specific suppliments other than low carb protein and BCAA for recovery and I too follow a 5x5 program with some added stuff like chin/pull ups and running. I can tell when I'm cheating on my diet because I deal with more inflammation. As someone who had "pre-arthritis" in my toes since my 20s that's a big deal.

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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » Apr 27 2019 7:36pm

I just got back from the salt lake keto festival. What a charge!

The best part was meeting Amber O'Hearn. She has been on a ketogenic diet since 1997, and went zero carb ( all meat ) about 12 years ago. She is also a programmer and also had mental health issues before getting into this line of diet, so we had lots to talk about.
IMG_0108.JPG
She also recently organized the first carnivore diet conference. Here are some choice cuts from that. Keto people may find this interesting.



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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » Apr 28 2019 7:13pm

Oh by the way, i read the full paper of the eat lancet report.
There were a couple important statements in that report that the media did not cover:

“The effect sizes of the dietary risk factors on disease endpoints were mostly obtained from meta-analyses of prospective observational studies. Although many of these dietary relative risks have been adjusted for the major confounders (eg, age, sex, smoking, and physical activity), the possibility of residual confounding cannot be excluded.”

“Additionally, given the intake of healthy dietary factors are generally positively correlated with each other and inversely correlated with harmful dietary factors, the effect size of the individual dietary factors might be overestimated. Many of the observational studies used for estimation of the relative risks have not corrected risk estimates for dietary measurement error, and some have adjusted for factors along the causal pathways.”

“We did not evaluate the effect of other forms of malnutrition (ie, undernutrition and obesity). The epidemiological evidence supporting a causal relationship between dietary risks and disease endpoints were mostly from observational studies, and the strength of evidence was generally weaker than the strength of evidence supporting a causal relationship between other established risks factors (eg, tobacco use and high systolic blood pressure) and chronic diseases. Additionally, the strength of evidence varied across foods and nutrients.”

What this means is that they used the lowest quality evidence possible ( a second hand look at second hand reports of self-reported food intakes ) and their risk factors are not controlled by things that could skew them in an extreme of either direction.
( seriously.. how could you not take obesity, smoking, etc into account? )

The main funding source of the study was pharmaceutical companies.
And the news summaries of this study just happened to leave the part out about the extremely low quality of the data and their low confidence in their assertions.

Full text of eat lancet's report: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 8/fulltext

But... this is just another day in dietary studies; low quality reports masquerading under the guise of science is the norm in this field.
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Re: The keto thread

Post by Dauntless » Apr 28 2019 11:24pm

"Butter makes your pants fall off?" Are you forgetting that MARGARINE is what is going to save the world? That's it's fit for a King? The experts agree.

(Anybody know if they still make that stuff?)
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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » Apr 29 2019 6:13pm

Yeah, that's my butter bob briggs t shirt. He's my fav.

The inverse of that would be.. 'margarine is so bad they're developing an omega 3 based drug to save people's hearts from it'

No really, i just read about that here: https://pipelinereview.com/index.php/20 ... ation.html

I had to laugh because this would literally be the most expensive omega 3 supplement you could buy.
( or you could stop consuming the seed oils that are rampant in our food... )

These industrial seed oils that are chock full of omega 6 are poison.. the proof is in India.. a country that consumes very little animal fat, especially from red meat, yet every time you see them cooking, they've got a 1-2 gallon jug of seed oil they're dumping on everything. Cardiovascular disease is now the number one killer of the poster children for plant based diets.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10 ... 114.008729
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Re: The keto thread

Post by Dauntless » May 01 2019 8:46pm

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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » May 02 2019 2:06pm

Oh it's funny you linked that because i was actually reading into why the impossible burger was so popular. I came back rather terrified because a lot of people are promoting eating it.

The thing that makes the impossible burger like a burger is a genetically modified hemoglobin based on soy. So essentially they've figured out how to make the stuff cook like meat by imitating a protein that circulates in cows' blood.

Nearly all the nutrients come from synthetic vitamins which are added after the fact.
The real problem is that the burger is estrogenic.

See, a 100g portion of soy protein contains around 50g of an isoflavone known to be an estrogen mimicker. Look up soy protein in the USDA's table here: https://www.ars.usda.gov/ARSUserFiles/8 ... lav_R2.pdf

Coincidentally many supplements sold to post menopausal women as a means of boosting estrogen levels. These supplement makers are legally allowed to say their products are estrogen free, yet paradoxically contain warning labels typical for drugs which have estrogenic activity. These supplements typically contain 40g of soy isoflavone.

The particularly villainous soy isoflavone is Genistein, which has a mountain of research showing that it's very bad stuff.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genistein

The impossible burger has more of these isoflavones than supplements meant for post menopausal women, and will have detrimental effects on both men and women. In a fair world, it should not legally be allowed to be marketed as a health food.
2019-05-02 13_06_21-Spring Valley Soy Isoflavones Tablets, 40 mg, 60 Ct - Walmart.com - Brave.png
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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » May 02 2019 2:19pm

Ah, also i was writing an article for my news site about why peanut allergy treatments have been perpetual failures and stumbled upon an extreme case of pea protein allergy leading to the exact kind of anaphylactic shock we see in peanut allergies.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/food-all ... -1.5118978

I recently eliminated peanuts from my diet since reading about the antinutrients that are in them. Both me and my wife are moving towards a more paleolithic ketogenic diet... this was dinner last night..
IMG_0158.JPG
parmesan cheese, bacon, steak, and brussel sprouts cooked in bacon grease:
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Re: The keto thread

Post by markz » May 02 2019 8:12pm

:(
I never liked them.

neptronix wrote:
May 02 2019 2:19pm
brussel sprouts

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Re: The keto thread

Post by Dauntless » May 02 2019 10:05pm

markz wrote:
May 02 2019 8:12pm
:(
I never liked them.

neptronix wrote:
May 02 2019 2:19pm
brussel sprouts
I didn't used to, but I've discovered when you fry them up in terribly unhealthy ways, they're terrific.
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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » May 03 2019 11:17am

The good news is that there is nothing unhealthy about saturated fat.

I didn't like brussels sprouts until i started this way of eating. IMHO if you are eating a meat-centric diet, a high nutrient value veggie must be in your diet. I get 1-2 big servings of dark greens per day because of this. It's more dark greens than i ate when i was a vegetarian.

I also did not eat organ meat before starting this diet. Until i realized it is a superfood with no parallels in the plant world whatsoever. Now it is a daily thing.
Example: https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/po ... cts/2196/2
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Re: The keto thread

Post by Dauntless » May 03 2019 5:02pm

neptronix wrote:
May 03 2019 11:17am
Dauntless wrote:
May 02 2019 10:05pm
I didn't used to, but I've discovered when you fry them up in terribly unhealthy ways, they're terrific.
The good news is that there is nothing unhealthy about saturated fat.
That's right, take the fun out of it.
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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » May 04 2019 8:42pm

Dauntless wrote:
May 03 2019 5:02pm
at's right, take the fun out of it.
sorry :lol:
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Re: The keto thread

Post by Cephalotus » May 07 2019 6:39am

neptronix wrote:
Apr 27 2019 9:50am

If you do not have type 2 diabetes or any other condition related to perpetually elevated glucose or insulin ( most Americans are showing signs of this today ), then by all means eat the lancet diet if it is working for you.
Of course I do not have type 2 diabetes. Why should I? Not having diabetes is the normality.

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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » May 09 2019 3:09pm

Cephalotus wrote:
May 07 2019 6:39am
Of course I do not have type 2 diabetes. Why should I? Not having diabetes is the normality.
Not yet, but we are headed that way.

Note that this graph begins when ancel keys started spreading the mistruths about cholesterol and saturated fat. The early 90's were the beginning of the low fat craze.
2019-05-09 14_05_59-Long-term Trends in Diabetes - long_term_trends.pdf.png
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nhanes-fig5.png
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Re: The keto thread

Post by TheBeastie » May 12 2019 9:28pm

Great thread.

I am not keto, just been lowering my carbs, its all about killing those processed food addiction habits.

This guys YouTube channel really did it for me, low carb meal prep.
I basically copied the meal but replaced rice with sweet potato. I also now do it all in a pressure cooker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpLJXHUyvyM
I make usually 5 sets of meals similar to above either based on chicken breast or beef.
I stole the sweet potato idea from him as well, he has got many variations of these meals.

The thing with these low carb pre-made meals is you can eat a few of them a day if you feel like eating like a pig and still lose weight as long as you stay away from sugar/rice/pasta carbs.

I never lost weight until I did/copied this setup.

I have watched general broadcast TV shows on diet and looked up stuff on the web etc but got nowhere, nothing compared to just watching every single detail on what to do on YouTube. Youtube made a world of difference because I didn't know how to cook, I didn't know how to meal prep. Books tell you to "cook the chicken", I didn't know how to do it properly.
I am also lazy, I couldn't be bothered cooking every night, so making 5 meals in a single go made a huge the difference.

This is another reason why I see/claim broadcast TV as evil, and that broadcast TV must be replaced with internet only streaming in the coming future world. I would still be stuck in a fat headache riddled hole if it wasn't for YouTube and its ability to conveniently show me the details of cooking/meal-prep as well as what to eat.

My weight loss was quite large, the more I stick to it the more the weight goes, I am actually thinking of reintroducing rice so that its generally more healthy. I go in and out of doing a small set of pushups per day to keep some muscle, but I got to make this more routine also.

I think for those who are keen to see how much weight they can drop, a chicken+brocolli+sweet potato meal prep diet with water as your only drink, is a great way to see the power of dropping carbs. Then you can go and add rice for a more healthy level of carbs and understand just how powerful carbs are, you don't need much rice to see your weight go back up.

Suffer from acid reflux its plagued me for a long time, and I been trying to gain the habit of eating as much as possible earlier in the day, that and still dropping out the sweet foods I am sneaking into my diet due to bad habits and stress.
The more I stress the more I want to run to chocolate or coffee with sugar in it and then get raging acid reflux, I realize I really am at war with "processed foods addiction", it may as well be heroin rather than chocolate/coffee.

One small gain for me is that I realized coffee with any milk is far worse for my acid reflux than just plain coffee, and I am willing to bet dropping that teaspoon of sugar will lower acid reflux even more.

I have realized all the processed foods/sugar really is poison, like having drugs sitting around, but broadcast TV/media made it feel normal, when in fact it's incredibly destructive to your life.
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Re: The keto thread

Post by Grantmac » May 12 2019 11:23pm

I LOVED flavored coffee creamer. Now it's a few drops of flavored stevia and maybe a tablespoon of heavy cream. Pushes all the right buttons with no impact on blood sugar so I can have it while fasting.

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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » May 13 2019 10:45am

Grantmac wrote:
May 12 2019 11:23pm
I LOVED flavored coffee creamer. Now it's a few drops of flavored stevia and maybe a tablespoon of heavy cream. Pushes all the right buttons with no impact on blood sugar so I can have it while fasting.
Unfortunately heavy cream breaks a fast, physiologically.. cuz calories.
When doing intermittent fasting, i will only consume water and salt so that i get the benefit of autophagy.
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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » May 13 2019 10:46am

TheBeastie wrote:
May 12 2019 9:28pm
Great thread.
Thanks ^_^
TheBeastie wrote:
May 12 2019 9:28pm
I am not keto, just been lowering my carbs, its all about killing those processed food addiction habits.
..
The thing with these low carb pre-made meals is you can eat a few of them a day if you feel like eating like a pig and still lose weight as long as you stay aware from sugar/rice/pasta carbs.

I never lost weight until I did/copied this setup.
You know, i've heard that from a lot of people. That going about halfway as low carb as i have, resulted in major weight loss and health improvements. I have also heard that just eliminating sugar and bread was the key for some people.

That is why i don't necessarily think everyone should eat the way i do. Results matter more than dogma.
Youtube made a world of difference because I didn't know how to cook, I didn't know how to meal prep. Books tell you to "cook the chicken", I didn't know how to do it properly.
I am also lazy, I couldn't be bothered cooking every night, so making 5 meals in a single go made a huge the difference.
Yeah i didn't know how to cook before this either. I was eating around 80% processed foods as a result. I hear they do not teach children to cook anymore in school here in the states..
I also do meal prep. It is the only way to eat healthy every day in a time efficient manner.
My weight loss was quite large, the more I stick to it the more the weight goes, I am actually thinking of reintroducing rice so that its generally more healthy. I go in and out of doing a small set of pushups per day to keep some muscle, but I got to make this more routine also.
I used to think rice was healthy until i read about the arsenic in it and looked at the vitamin content in it, versus a megavitamin food like pork liver or brussel sprouts. Brown rice is the most nutritious but also comes with more arsenic and more phytic acid, which reduces nutrient absorption. When it is processed into white rice, it loses all of it's nutritional value. So in either scenario, you are not exactly winning the vitamin lottery.

The value of rice is mostly in the carbohydrates myself, but i try to avoid carbohydrates at all costs, so when i eat vegetables, they have to be the most nutrient dense ones.
TheBeastie wrote:
May 12 2019 9:28pm
I have realized all the processed foods/sugar really is poison, like having drugs sitting around, but broadcast TV/media made it feel normal, when in fact it's incredibly destructive to your life.
Okay, so i read research papers on diet and medicine as part of another job and i can tell you that a lot of recent medications target pathways which are harmed by poor diet. It's funny and sad at the same time, because you could completely skip the expensive pharmaceutical drug and just eat different, but...

There is a drug that is a metabolite of omega 3 ( DHA ) that they're going to try to sell as a heart afib med:
https://regenerativetimes.com/2019/04/3 ... rillation/

A drug that causes the body to excrete sugar and force the body into ketosis is being studied as a medication for heart failure:
https://regenerativetimes.com/2019/04/2 ... less-risk/

There's a recent report about mice getting depressed on a 'high fat diet' which turns out to resemble a standard american diet ( not ketogenic ) and the researchers are basically fishing around for new areas of the brain to target for depressed people who are on what i'd call 'standard american diet plus ice cream':
https://newatlas.com/obesity-depression ... ing/59636/

Turn on any television and you will be sold the poison and the cure for the poison, often in one sitting.
And in the research world you see a good effort at preventing people from connecting the dots.
I stopped watching television in '99..

By the way, you will probably love this video since you also see the connection to processed food and our health. Robert is not exactly a keto diet guy, but sympathetic to the cause.



Also, a lot of people say acid reflux goes away on a ketogenic diet. I believe the reason why is that a proper ketogenic diet does not contain much in the way of plant poisons or plant/artificial acids. There is an elimination diet documented in a book called 'dropping acid' and a friend of mine who is not on the keto path swears by it.

My stomach is allergic to some kind of self defense chemical ( probably solanine ) in certain potatoes. I used to get an inflamed stomach and perpetual hiccuping which would go on for months. One doctor found out that taking an antacid for 2-3 days stopped the out of control reaction. instead of having antacids around, i just stopped eating potatoes. YMMV.
[/quote]
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Re: The keto thread

Post by Grantmac » May 13 2019 12:35pm

neptronix wrote:
May 13 2019 10:45am
Grantmac wrote:
May 12 2019 11:23pm
I LOVED flavored coffee creamer. Now it's a few drops of flavored stevia and maybe a tablespoon of heavy cream. Pushes all the right buttons with no impact on blood sugar so I can have it while fasting.
Unfortunately heavy cream breaks a fast, physiologically.. cuz calories.
When doing intermittent fasting, i will only consume water and salt so that i get the benefit of autophagy.
I fall under the camp that less than 50-75 non glycemic calories consumed over an hour or so doesn't break a fast. Certainly I continue to feel the positive fasting effects and it controls my hunger effectively. Without coffee fasting is very uncomfortable.

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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » May 13 2019 1:07pm

Grantmac wrote:
May 13 2019 12:35pm
I fall under the camp that less than 50-75 non glycemic calories consumed over an hour or so doesn't break a fast. Certainly I continue to feel the positive fasting effects and it controls my hunger effectively. Without coffee fasting is very uncomfortable.
Without coffee, life is uncomfortable :mrgreen:

What kind of fasting are you doing? my regimen is basically two meals a day, spaced out by 10 hours AKA the ramadan way.
I haven't experimented with multi day fasting yet.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

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Grantmac   10 kW

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Re: The keto thread

Post by Grantmac » May 13 2019 3:01pm

I try to fast at least 14 hours preferably 18-20. Usually I quit eating around 830pm then start again after the gym at 1230-1pm.
I'm at a stable weight but trying really hard to increase muscle mass without gaining weight.

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » May 15 2019 10:25am

Grantmac wrote:
May 13 2019 3:01pm
I try to fast at least 14 hours preferably 18-20. Usually I quit eating around 830pm then start again after the gym at 1230-1pm.
I'm at a stable weight but trying really hard to increase muscle mass without gaining weight.
That's a hard tightrope to walk. I have not successfully done it myself. One has to eat just the right amount of calories for anabolism and catabolism to occur.. Now, you can get pretty close with a basal metabolic rate with some calculation.. but i don't know of any way to measure the caloric impact of lifting weights for an hour. This is the unaccounted for variable that makes things difficult.

I tried to walk the tightrope and could not exactly nail it.. i usually errored on the side of catabolism, but still managed to build some muscle during an extremely strict intermittent fasting phase.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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