The keto thread

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neptronix   100 GW

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The keto thread

Post by neptronix » Feb 05 2019 10:56pm

Anyone else here do keto? just curious.
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Re: The keto thread

Post by Dauntless » Feb 06 2019 2:31am

I looked into that and concluded it's not so very different from the way I just eat on my own. The diet that turns everyone's theories on their heads. I refuse to give up fruit.

Here's something related.

https://www.outsideonline.com/2382501/s ... -diet-test
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Re: The keto thread

Post by izeman » Feb 06 2019 3:46am

Yes. But not too serious. More like a very low carb diet.

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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » Feb 07 2019 9:40am

Dauntless wrote:
Feb 06 2019 2:31am
I looked iI looked into that and concluded it's not so very different from the way I just eat on my own. The diet that turns everyone's theories on their heads. I refuse to give up fruit.
Is that where you get your online debating power? :lol:

A friend of mine jumped on the keto bandwagon, then carnivore, then back to keto. His impression is that full carnivore is kinda hard to sustain since it's such a mono-diet.

But, being inspired by Shawn Baker himself, he finally started lifting weights and the confidence boost has lead to a change in how he carries himself, which is cool.

I found this interesting:
Baker’s enthusiasm for the diet soon spread beyond his own life. While working as an orthopedic surgeon in New Mexico, he began discussing diet with patients suffering from osteoarthritis and other conditions. “I was basically practicing lifestyle medicine instead of strictly performing surgery,” he told me. A dispute with the hospital ensued, and in 2017, Baker was forced to surrender his medical license pending an independent evaluation, which occurred at the end of 2017. “The evaluation said there’s nothing wrong with me. I’m completely competent to practice medicine,” he said. He now lives in California and expects to have his medical license reinstated in February.
Uh huh, this is a huge shame because people with orthopedic problems directly benefit from:
1) Losing weight ( hundreds of GOOD papers out there link obesity to joint and bone issues ).
2) Being physically active to the best of their ability.
3) Going on a diet that reduces muscule catabolism to the highest extent.

This kinda stuff also happened to Robert Atkins. He started out as a cardiologist and was blown away by what diet could do, so he opened an alternative health clinic and started writing books about diet and what supplementation can do to treat disease. Then, came the legal threats.

Admittedly, Atkins was experimenting with a lot of things and you can easily get wrapped up in legal or licensure trouble doing that.

The carnivore diet leading to increased blood sugar and digestive issues for the writer is not a surprise. I had basically the same result when trying it for a short period of time.

I really like Amber O'Hearn on this topic. She's a computer programmer with a history of major mental illness and going from Keto to Carnivore has helped her a ton in her career and mental health.

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Re: The keto thread

Post by Dauntless » Feb 07 2019 10:08pm

neptronix wrote:
Feb 07 2019 9:40am
Is that where you get your online debating power? :lol:
It's called the 'Strength of Character' diet. Making sure you're getting things right stands up to the big bad wind wolf and all the straw houses of those making it up as they go.

Even Keto, it's not good wall to wall. I start going to get a dozen eggs and 2 dozen sausage for breakfast 6 days of the next week. Maybe I'll have a run of a can of Bacon Spam for lunch for awhile. (The best one.) I might have a lot of chicken in just 2 days. But after some weeks it's time to let up. I might go days of no meat.

I get my box of spinach I need to finish in a week, yogurt, Museli cereal, melons, getting back to my regular apples, carrots and bananas after a bad stretch. (Don't know why I stopped.) Then there's much that's not planned but I'll get after it. I work or go to school and might end up eating whatever.
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Re: The keto thread

Post by grindz145 » Feb 08 2019 3:50pm

I've been following a Ketogenic diet for roughly 80% of the last 3 years. It has done wonders for me mental health, focus, end of day energy.

The only downsides I have experienced are that it can affect my sleep. I get so amped up that I don't want to go to sleep (almost like overcaffinated) .

Anyhow my personal recommendations are to assure that you use healthy fats as much as possible and get LOTS of fiber, through nuts,seeds, avocado etc.

I started out being stupid and just eating like eggs and bacon all the time. While that's just fine in moderation, a healthy diet pretty much looks like a healthy diet no matter how much you slice it.

You can get perfect macros by having a spinach salad with macadamias/ olives/ and some fancy olive oil for dressing. I bump up into the 50-100g of low glycemic index carbs occasionally, and even if I'm no longer in ketosis I seem to tolerate it nicely and drop back into my super-focus again pretty quickly.

As always everyone's body has different genetic coding and the metabolic mechanics are different so YMMV, but I have found it an indispensable tool in my own life.

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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » Feb 08 2019 4:18pm

Interesting that you have sleep problems. I have always had them. Keto did not seem to have an effect, other than leveling out my energy throughout the day, but i came from a baseline of type 2 diabetes, where your energy is absolutely a rollercoaster due to dysregulation of blood sugar when eating carbs. ( i would have to eat small portions of food constantly just to maintain my energy )

Eggs and bacon all day reaks havoc on my digestive system so i never do keto 'by the book'. My version has a little more protein and the primary source of carbohydrates for me is leafy greens first and nuts second. I eat high nutrient, high fiber greens like broccoli and brussel sprouts because you must absolutely must pick the best veggies when you have a limited carbohydrate budget.

One interesting thing is how many programmers/web guys/computer scientists are absolutely nuts about keto. I also like what it does to my brain. My short term memory has always been trash, but keto has expanded the megabytes of RAM i have. Since doing keto, i have consistently written code that is more complex because i can remember more of what the other thousands of lines of code are doing. I also do not have to take a snack break which interrupts the flow of thought that is critical to maintain in programming.

After starting keto, i got enough confidence in my body and mind to start weight lifting. I think weight lifting is an equally good brain hack. The two go hand in hand and you are missing out if you're not doing both, in my opinion.

Oh, and weight lifting helps with the sleep problem for me. I think of it as letting a dog or a child burn their extra energy off like the extra rocket booster on a space ship. You gotta get rid of that energy or you mind will just spin and spin in bed.
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Re: The keto thread

Post by Dauntless » Feb 09 2019 12:06am

Life long sleep problems here. The theory goes that here I was a hyperactive kid getting sent to bed too early because Mom would get sick of all the kids and I could lay in bed awake for hours; a kid grows up without a proper sleep rhythm that way.

And when I go binging on the meat I do my best sleeping. Last year was a disaster for sleeping until maybe November I decided to ramp this up. It has the added benefit of swelling problems clearing up , though the lower back hasn't straightened itself out completely. I do believe I'm finally recovering from my little accident 3 years ago, as soon as it warms up some I want to start riding at sun up.

So, did you know that Kellogg's cereal was developed as a result of digestive problems? Nearly 200 years ago a child was born in Battle Creek, Michigan. A fitting name for the town this one came from. His dad had diarrhea for more than a decade, etc. His older brother grew up to be a doctor with much to say about the doctors who handled his mother and father both.

And he became a doctor, too. Oh, as a child he had trouble, or at least he BELIEVED he had trouble, getting rid of his meals when he was done with them. (The proper euphemisms will really make this one pop. One 'O.') Diligently he would work to develop his muscles to aid him in this --- struggle. Ever wonder if you could accidentally stretch things out a bit too much by trying so hard? He discovered that you could. That it was painful. That it never really goes away.

So as an adult, this Dr. Kellogg ran a sanitarium and worked very hard to develop food that would cooperate with being retired from service. He would make his assistant, his younger brother, accompany him to the rest room to take notes. He said it was because of all the time that would be lost and he'd have his brother take dictation. But you gotta wonder if, considering his lifetime of bad experiences in there, maybe he was just afraid to go alone.

So after one of the sanitariums former patients, one C.W. Post, went into the cereal business trying to recreate the sanitarium food, the younger brother got permission to market the older brother's cereal. Which should have been a happy thing, the older brother was getting royalties, it was keeping his sanitarium in business, etc. But HE wanted to be the bigshot, now the younger brother had ellipsed him and was getting all the credit, so he decided to get, well, ANAL about the whole thing.

Thus did it become appropriate that the family came from Battle Creek, Michigan.

Ah well. The point is that Dr. Kellogg came from an era that is considered the most gastrically difficult in American history. Would you believe he described the diet of the time, much like the Keto diet, which he called the cause of the nationwide digestive disaster. . . .
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Re: The keto thread

Post by markz » Apr 03 2019 4:02pm

I find it very hard to follow any diet, I am good during the day but come evening time I will eat a whole row of Oreo's, some pasta leftovers, sugar laced apple sauce. The local gym/pool has raised their rates yet again, I remember a cpl years ago it being $20, then they went $21 now its $27/month, still an amazing deal as the normal monthly rate is like $80. I can even hit up the city owned pools for a great discounted rate, play some squash/racquet ball which is a work out in itself, just playing by yourself. I have laid off the milk now for a year, but I still do some cereal at night and drink the sugar laced milk from it.

Joe Rogan recently had a black comedian on and he lost 200lbs, I remember clearly Rogan saying losing that kind of weight is a friggin miracle, and anyone who's going to do it will hurt and ache for food, I remember that clearly, hurt and ache for food.

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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » Apr 04 2019 9:04am

The way you describe how you eat is exactly how i got fat. If you consistently eat that way, technically it's a diet. Except the name for that diet is 'the makes most people fat diet'. So you can follow a routine, it's just that if you wanted to lose weight or improve your health, you'll want to get into another routine.. for me, keto is a routine.

The only reason keto is special is because for people with insulin resistance ( like me ) have their hurting and aching for food removed, which allows them to actually lose weight by cutting calories. Otherwise, it's impossible because the hurting and aching is extreme. Which is why most fat people stay fat. This is also why most type 2 diabetics will lose their vision, a limb or two, and maybe their life. The feedback cycle of the metabolism is completely broken.

When i tried to diet as a carb-ivore, it was an impossible fight against my willpower because my metabolism demanded nothing but more carbs. It lost it's ability to burn my own body fat, and any attempt to cut calories was met with extreme fatigue and craving.

When i was young and stupid, i smoked crack and meth. I can tell you that the craving for more carbs when you have a screwed up metabolism is just as bad as a craving those drugs. There is no such thing as moderation, anymore. There is only downward spiral until the feedback loop is broken.

So i am going on 6 years of eating the ketogenic way, and i have zero interest in trying food-crack again.

Because i like my health and aesthetics and confidence as this person.. ( 180lbs )
IMG_20171122_162924.jpg
Instead of this person.. who was perpetually sick, self conscious, and felt hopeless.. ( approaching 300lbs )
fatdaveboating.jpg
fatdaveboating.jpg (67.92 KiB) Viewed 3446 times
PS - you're probably eating a shit ton of carbs at night because your body can no longer enter ketosis as you sleep and you need an energy source to get you through the night. I used to do that when i was a carbivore. I couldn't help but stuff my face at night. I heard this was a bad practice and tried to stop that night eating multiple times. Could not manage it. Only now do i understand why i couldn't stop.
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Re: The keto thread

Post by Dauntless » Apr 04 2019 12:04pm

markz wrote:
Apr 03 2019 4:02pm
I find it very hard to follow any diet. . . .
Yeah, I just like eating. I'm way too good at it.

If you get Frosty, Heidi and Frank, the Frosty has supposedly lost some serious tonnage. In the last few weeks he was saying over 60 pounds. No new pictures and it's radio, so no PROOF.

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Re: The keto thread

Post by markz » Apr 04 2019 4:46pm

Just go on the starvation diet and eat lean foods and veg, with working out. Lots of caffienne pills to curb the hunger.

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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » Apr 05 2019 9:25am

markz wrote:
Apr 04 2019 4:46pm
Just go on the starvation diet and eat lean foods and veg, with working out. Lots of caffienne pills to curb the hunger.
I see you've been reading the crash diet articles in 'women's world' :mrgreen:
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Re: The keto thread

Post by Dauntless » Apr 05 2019 11:25pm

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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » Apr 12 2019 6:05pm

That's a damn good article.
And is exactly why i like keto..

On carbs, it's a battle of willpower that can never be won, with my metabolism working against me at every angle.
On keto, i am more likely to forget to eat. So maintaining the weight loss is no issue.

Those who keep rattling on 'just eat less and move more' don't understand what is going on with people that have metabolisms like me. People like me are becoming more common by the day.
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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » Apr 12 2019 6:06pm

So the government of Western Australia recently pulled their heads out of their asses and put out a memo supporting low carb in favor of traditional type 2 diabetes treatment - not only because it gives better outcomes, but it's less of a financial burden on their system. Pretty cool. :)

http://regenerativetimes.com/2019/04/12 ... remission/
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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » Apr 12 2019 6:11pm

There is a company actually doing a clinical trial on a ketogenic diet for type 2 diabetes.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT ... &load=cart

Said company is actually making headways in convincing the American Diabetes Association that their deadly recommendations to type 2 diabetics are dead wrong.
I wonder what the ADA's corporate sponsors will think. But nonetheless, it is cool to be at a tipping point.. :)

PS - i had surgery 2 months ago and had to disclose that i was a type 2 diabetic, so i got flagged for special treatment and blood glucose monitoring. The surgeon later remarked that if i had type 2 diabetes, they couldn't tell. My blood sugar before, during, and after was a flat 80 and there we no signs of damage to blood vessels from T2D. :thumb:

It's kinda cool to get external validation - not that i needed it, but i'll take it!
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Re: The keto thread

Post by Dauntless » Apr 13 2019 12:53am

neptronix wrote:
Apr 12 2019 6:05pm
Those who keep rattling on 'just eat less and move more' don't understand what is going on with people that have metabolisms like me. People like me are becoming more common by the day.
Picture two guys who don't really know each other but going to the same gym. One being me. Two guys, two broken Lega about the same time, neither knowing about the other.

I should say fractured, no cast. No recovery, either, almost a year later I'm in deep tissue therapy. The guy tells me there should be a syndrome name for what I was going through, first a leg injury leaves you moving wrong, bring a back injury. What he did to my leg was agonizing, but it worked. This after an inactive year of cramping, never ending pain. . . .

It's one thing to eat less, it's another to have your body expecting you to eat so much and telling you that you're starving while it hurts to move at all. I put on a bit of weight in that period, but I did end up going back to the gym.

So there was this guy coming in with a wheelchair and struggling to get himself into the jacuzzi. Only reason he came to the gym because he said it helped. I didn't recognize him, he'd put on so much weight. He used to be in some serious shape.

He didn't cry talking about the pain. It didn't start until we were commiserating on the things we used to do and I was at least moving towards doing and he wasnt.

Then there was everyone telling him he needed to lose weight. I could say at least I never got THAT big. But I understood how he did. And if you don't eat enough, your body becomes more efficient and doesn't let anything go.

At the time there was another guy. Maybe having less trouble but we seemed to be on and off the crutches and the walking stick at the same time. One day he said he was resigned to the stick the rest of his life. As I was being told I would be. Unless maybe I tried this surgery. Need I explain how I feel about surgery? Has it been 10 must have operations they've demanded so far?

Right after he said said he'd given up, the best thing that could have happened, under the circumstances, was someone stealing my walking stick.

Yeah, such dirtbags out there. A handicapped person puts it down in the store, one of them grabs it. And I made up my mind I wasn't buying another. Was slower without it at first, but I got better. The other two never really did.

What set me apart from them? They followed the doctors advice. Obviously I didn't.

There's this phrase I really don't like. 'Common Sense.' People act like that's a good thing. All it really means is 'Don't question what everyone else believes.' Yeah, I guess you can see where I'd have a problem with that. Old wives tales, urban legends, doctor knows best. . . .

ALL WRONG! Awww, there's people on ES who get so upset when I talk that way. (You know I'm lovin' that.)

But it's not going to change. People are going to dismiss my avoiding so much surgery and being better off as some sort of accident. That's their problem
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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » Apr 15 2019 2:20pm

It's funny you're talkin' about crutches here, because i just completely tore apart two sets to frankenstein them together into a stronger assembly, eliminating flex and increasing stability :lol:
IMG_20190413_185326.jpg
But i get what you mean about going your own way. It's a recurring theme in my life. Not all my health experiments are winners. But my batting average is pretty good for a person with zero medical training ( just a lot of reading research papers over the last 7 years ). I'll take it.
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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » Apr 23 2019 6:57pm

Here's a fun one.

Researchers were experimenting with a diabetes drug when noticing that it reversed heart failure in some patients.
They recently tried it on pigs with heart disease and saw massive improvements.

What does the drug do? it causes something like 90% of the glucose that goes into the body to exit it.
Basically the pigs were on keto. They had elevated ketones and low blood sugar. :mrgreen:

Big pharma accidentally proved that keto saves pigs from heart disease :lol:

The drug itself has a side effect of necrotizing fascitis in the genitals though..

https://regenerativetimes.com/2019/04/2 ... less-risk/
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Re: The keto thread

Post by neptronix » Apr 26 2019 12:37am

ADA officially accepts low carbohydrate diet as an option for reducing medications in type 2 diabetes – 2019 May edition

Nice, they finally admit what western science has known since the late 1800's works.. ^_^

..yours truly was saved from diabetes 6 years ago because of this dietary regimen.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
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Re: The keto thread

Post by Cephalotus » Apr 26 2019 4:23am

My diet plan is to eat mostly "real food".

Lots of vegetables and fruits
nuts, legumes, cereals, potatoes, rice, bread, fibres, etc...
some milk products, eggs and fat fish (real fish)
a small amount og high quality meat
only small amounts of sugar and sodas.
My main weak pint is icecream, nobody is perfect.

I don't care about carb vs fats vs. proteins, it is not relevant if you eat real food and if you don't eat to much of it. I eat everything that I like but I try to focus that the main 90-95% of my caloric income is healthy stuff.

I also care about the sustainability aspect and I try to buy mostly organic food and animal products where animals have been treated better than usual.

The benefit: At 41 years my weight and amount of bodyfat are "ideal" and all my health indicators are ideal, too. I'm able to do various kinds of sports and I don't need any medical treatments.

I hope to keep it that way at least until 80 :-)

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https://www.thelancet.com/commissions/EAT

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Re: The keto thread

Post by Grantmac » Apr 26 2019 12:40pm

I've never been obese but no matter how much I exercise I've always been heavy in the gut and experienced joint pain. I've generally eaten very "healthy" foods.
Going low carb changed my life entirely. All the work I was putting in finally made a difference. I didn't need to "fuel" all the time. I finally don't have a gut, I'm not hungry and my digestion isn't upset all the time.
No single thing has been as positive as simply reducing my carbs below 100g a day and focusing on quality.

The one downside is a slightly reduced ability to recover from heavy lifting but I generally cycle in a bit more carbs at lunch those days which is my first meal and eaten after working out.

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Re: The keto thread

Post by Dauntless » Apr 26 2019 10:55pm

The big gut. A lot of corn, rice, breakfast cereal. Thought it was healthy, eh? Some of this is counter intuitive, or at at least we've been led to believe a lot that's wrong.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM MAGIC!
- Arthur C. Clarke

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Dauntless   100 GW

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Re: The keto thread

Post by Dauntless » Apr 27 2019 1:08am

neptronix wrote:
Apr 23 2019 6:57pm
The drug itself has a side effect of necrotizing fascitis in the genitals though..
And this works how, exactly?
Any sufficiently advanced technology is INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM MAGIC!
- Arthur C. Clarke

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