Total Installed 16" (motorcycle) Tire Diameter?

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rg12   100 kW

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Total Installed 16" (motorcycle) Tire Diameter?

Post by rg12 » Feb 16 2020 5:30am

I know it changes with different tires and different rims but your personal experience can help here.
I have a customer with a front motor 20" wheel that including the tire ends up being exactly 50cm tall.
He wants to switch to a motorcycle rim and tire that will match this max height (tire installed and inflated).
He has up to 3.5" width so if any of you have a 16" tire that doesn't exceed this width I would be happy to know which tire and rim do you have and what is your total diameter.

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   1 MW

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Re: Total Installed 16" (motorcycle) Tire Diameter?

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Feb 16 2020 11:10am

prowheel 14" 1.6/ shinko 241 2.75 ~ 20" OD ..
prowheel 16" 1.6/ duro trial 2.75 ~ 22.25 OD ..
prowheel 16" 1.6/ shinko 241 3.0 ~ 22.5" OD ..

a 20" bicycle wheel rim measures 16" without tire and ~ 20" OD nominal using a 2" tire.. so therefore to get a moto wheel within the same 20" OD you would need a very narrow moto tire ~1.75" on 16" rim .. or maybe a 14" moto rim with a bit wider 2+" tire.. what is the motivation, tire durability/ flat prevention?? if so maybe just change the tire, not the rim.. 16" moto tire may fit the 20" bike rim because they have similar "bead seat diameter".. but can you find a narrow enough one to fit the bike frame/ fork width and wheel OD ..

edit: treatland.tv has moped tires 16 x 2.0 maybe worth a look..
https://www.treatland.tv/limited-space- ... y-16x2.htm
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

rg12   100 kW

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Re: Total Installed 16" (motorcycle) Tire Diameter?

Post by rg12 » Feb 17 2020 5:09am

efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Feb 16 2020 11:10am
prowheel 14" 1.6/ shinko 241 2.75 ~ 20" OD ..
prowheel 16" 1.6/ duro trial 2.75 ~ 22.25 OD ..
prowheel 16" 1.6/ shinko 241 3.0 ~ 22.5" OD ..

a 20" bicycle wheel rim measures 16" without tire and ~ 20" OD nominal using a 2" tire.. so therefore to get a moto wheel within the same 20" OD you would need a very narrow moto tire ~1.75" on 16" rim .. or maybe a 14" moto rim with a bit wider 2+" tire.. what is the motivation, tire durability/ flat prevention?? if so maybe just change the tire, not the rim.. 16" moto tire may fit the 20" bike rim because they have similar "bead seat diameter".. but can you find a narrow enough one to fit the bike frame/ fork width and wheel OD ..

edit: treatland.tv has moped tires 16 x 2.0 maybe worth a look..
https://www.treatland.tv/limited-space- ... y-16x2.htm
Thanks so much for this golden info!
14" is a great size for my need but doesn't let me lace a 3kw motor to the middle so am looking for a 3kw rim with built motor in china but I really rather go with 16" and a narrow tire, maybe a 2.15" wide rim and a 2" max tire width to lower it's profile as much as possible, but the problem is that I don't wanna order a rim and a tire, lace the motor and put on the tire only to find out that it ends up being still a bit over my max.
I will need to find someone with that exact setup and I doubt I will find that.

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Re: Total Installed 16" (motorcycle) Tire Diameter?

Post by John in CR » Feb 17 2020 1:15pm

rg12 wrote:
Feb 17 2020 5:09am
...14" is a great size for my need but doesn't let me lace a 3kw motor to the middle...
Of course it will. I have several, and they aren't laced radial either. It requires the proper rim and the spokes are only about 4" long. 14" tires are hard to find, at least down here, and they don't gain much over what is possible in 16", because the tires are fatter. My 14's end up almost 20" OD wheels, just like the smaller 16's.

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Re: Total Installed 16" (motorcycle) Tire Diameter?

Post by rg12 » Feb 18 2020 5:02pm

John in CR wrote:
Feb 17 2020 1:15pm
rg12 wrote:
Feb 17 2020 5:09am
...14" is a great size for my need but doesn't let me lace a 3kw motor to the middle...
Of course it will. I have several, and they aren't laced radial either. It requires the proper rim and the spokes are only about 4" long. 14" tires are hard to find, at least down here, and they don't gain much over what is possible in 16", because the tires are fatter. My 14's end up almost 20" OD wheels, just like the smaller 16's.
How is that possible?
14" minus the diameter of the motor is about 6" and you have almost an inch for the lip which the spokes start under it and you are left with 5" total that needs to be divided by two and you have 2.5" spoke length for radial lacing.

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Re: Total Installed 16" (motorcycle) Tire Diameter?

Post by John in CR » Feb 18 2020 10:33pm

rg12 wrote:
Feb 18 2020 5:02pm
John in CR wrote:
Feb 17 2020 1:15pm
rg12 wrote:
Feb 17 2020 5:09am
...14" is a great size for my need but doesn't let me lace a 3kw motor to the middle...
Of course it will. I have several, and they aren't laced radial either. It requires the proper rim and the spokes are only about 4" long. 14" tires are hard to find, at least down here, and they don't gain much over what is possible in 16", because the tires are fatter. My 14's end up almost 20" OD wheels, just like the smaller 16's.
How is that possible?
14" minus the diameter of the motor is about 6" and you have almost an inch for the lip which the spokes start under it and you are left with 5" total that needs to be divided by two and you have 2.5" spoke length for radial lacing.
That sounds about right, though mine are laced single cross. It's been years since I was looking for replacement spokes, but I think they were 110mm long spokes. That was my first Chinese factory direct order back in 2008. I got 5 motors with spoke holes, controllers, rims, spokes, and DC/DC converters. The motors were standard 203mm hubbies with 40mm stators with drum brakes built onto the right side cover. I got 3 with 14" rims and 2 with 17" rims. The 5 motor combos were $124usd/ea, and with ocean shipping, duties, and taxes the total was just under $1k.

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Re: Total Installed 16" (motorcycle) Tire Diameter?

Post by rg12 » Feb 19 2020 5:33am

John in CR wrote:
Feb 18 2020 10:33pm
rg12 wrote:
Feb 18 2020 5:02pm
John in CR wrote:
Feb 17 2020 1:15pm
rg12 wrote:
Feb 17 2020 5:09am
...14" is a great size for my need but doesn't let me lace a 3kw motor to the middle...
Of course it will. I have several, and they aren't laced radial either. It requires the proper rim and the spokes are only about 4" long. 14" tires are hard to find, at least down here, and they don't gain much over what is possible in 16", because the tires are fatter. My 14's end up almost 20" OD wheels, just like the smaller 16's.
How is that possible?
14" minus the diameter of the motor is about 6" and you have almost an inch for the lip which the spokes start under it and you are left with 5" total that needs to be divided by two and you have 2.5" spoke length for radial lacing.
That sounds about right, though mine are laced single cross. It's been years since I was looking for replacement spokes, but I think they were 110mm long spokes. That was my first Chinese factory direct order back in 2008. I got 5 motors with spoke holes, controllers, rims, spokes, and DC/DC converters. The motors were standard 203mm hubbies with 40mm stators with drum brakes built onto the right side cover. I got 3 with 14" rims and 2 with 17" rims. The 5 motor combos were $124usd/ea, and with ocean shipping, duties, and taxes the total was just under $1k.
That sounds great then, will sure do that!

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Re: Total Installed 16" (motorcycle) Tire Diameter?

Post by problemaddict » Feb 21 2020 2:35pm

I've got 16" moped tires on BMX rims. I can measure them when I get home, but it fits in a standard BMX fork without rubbing.

I think they're 16 x 2 x 2.25 size. I'll let you know...
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rg12   100 kW

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Re: Total Installed 16" (motorcycle) Tire Diameter?

Post by rg12 » Feb 21 2020 5:55pm

problemaddict wrote:
Feb 21 2020 2:35pm
I've got 16" moped tires on BMX rims. I can measure them when I get home, but it fits in a standard BMX fork without rubbing.

I think they're 16 x 2 x 2.25 size. I'll let you know...
If you can tell me the total diameter of the inflated tire on the rim that would be aweome!

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Re: Total Installed 16" (motorcycle) Tire Diameter?

Post by problemaddict » Feb 22 2020 4:27pm

Bondi XL BMX rim
Shinko 714 2.25-16 tire
533mm diameter - 21 inches
Tire is 63mm wide
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Re: Total Installed 16" (motorcycle) Tire Diameter?

Post by rg12 » Feb 23 2020 7:40pm

problemaddict wrote:
Feb 22 2020 4:27pm
Bondi XL BMX rim
Shinko 714 2.25-16 tire
533mm diameter - 21 inches
Tire is 63mm wide
Thanks alot!
I need somehow to not pass 50.5cm...
Asked two different local wheel builders to fit a 14" moto rim onto a 3kw motor and they said it can't be done as opposed to what John in CR said...

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   1 MW

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Re: Total Installed 16" (motorcycle) Tire Diameter?

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Feb 23 2020 7:46pm

I've seen it done, just not pretty.. noodle spokes and less than optimal spoke angles..
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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Re: Total Installed 16" (motorcycle) Tire Diameter?

Post by rg12 » Feb 24 2020 8:48am

efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Feb 23 2020 7:46pm
I've seen it done, just not pretty.. noodle spokes and less than optimal spoke angles..
Even on radial lacing?

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   1 MW

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Re: Total Installed 16" (motorcycle) Tire Diameter?

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Feb 24 2020 1:34pm

the hub motor I saw laced to 14" moto rim was 1 cross .. I would avoid radial lacing if possible.. contact treatland, maybe they could measure OD on those 16" slim moped tires for you..

Image

mxus 3kw laced to a 14" 1.60 moto rim.. :
https://m.facebook.com/groups/125035107 ... 9998905736
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

rg12   100 kW

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Re: Total Installed 16" (motorcycle) Tire Diameter?

Post by rg12 » Feb 24 2020 8:12pm

efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Feb 24 2020 1:34pm
the hub motor I saw laced to 14" moto rim was 1 cross .. I would avoid radial lacing if possible.. contact treatland, maybe they could measure OD on those 16" slim moped tires for you..

Image

mxus 3kw laced to a 14" 1.60 moto rim.. :
https://m.facebook.com/groups/125035107 ... 9998905736
Wow, why not go radial when the spokes are bent like that?

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   1 MW

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Re: Total Installed 16" (motorcycle) Tire Diameter?

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Feb 24 2020 9:29pm

not my wheel;) ask the builder where I linked..
I would never do radial lace, but try it if you want..
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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Re: Total Installed 16" (motorcycle) Tire Diameter?

Post by Balmorhea » Feb 25 2020 1:55am

In my experience, radial lacing works fine for hubs that are large in comparison to the rim. A couple of my own e-bikes have had radially laced spokes of 65-70mm length (big hubs, small wheels). They never had problems with spokes loosening, and they still have never broken any spokes. Torsional windup in that situation is negligible, both because torque-related forces at the spoke holes are small due to the hub’s radius, and because very small displacements of the spokes result in disproportionately large moment arms relative to the axis.

On the other hand, having extreme insertion angles at the rim almost always results in broken spokes.

rg12   100 kW

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Re: Total Installed 16" (motorcycle) Tire Diameter?

Post by rg12 » Feb 25 2020 6:42am

It's for a low torque setup and with short spokes radial is going to be fine, I just wanted to see how far are the spoke holes of the motor from the inner rim on a 14" moto rim but I see that there is no problem.
Thanks :)

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